Author Topic: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness  (Read 166151 times)

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #435 on: September 30, 2010, 05:23:16 AM »
when was this letter of Alexander III's written? Was it around the time of Sergei's marriage, or some years later, when children hadn't arrived?

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #436 on: September 30, 2010, 10:56:39 AM »
Well...First of all Alexander III knew of his brother's condition (of course he was Tsar) either because of his homosexuality and inability to perform sex. But he never went into specifics.

Offline matushka

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #437 on: October 18, 2010, 07:44:41 AM »
Alexander III, emperor of all Russia never went into specifics, but Eric Lowe is going into... Interesting ;)
Ann, here is the quotation, first in russian, then in broken english, someoneelse can later do better:
"Конечно, огромное утешение дети, только с ними и отдыхаешь морально, наслаждаешься ими и радуешься, глядя на них. Бедный Сергей и Элла, часто о них думаю, на всю жизнь они лишены этого великого утешения в жизни и великого благословения Господня".
" Of course, children are an enormous comfort, only looking at them one can find a moral rest, delight in them and rejoyce looking at them. Poor Sergey and Ella, I often think about them, they are for the whole life deprive of this grat comfort in life and in this great benediction of the Lord."
The letter was written the 30 april 1892, it is part of a very sad letter of a tired and depressed-sounding Alexander III. I found it in Imperator Alexander III i imperatritsa Maria Fedorovna. Perepiska 1884-1894 edit by A. Bohanov and Y. Kudrina, Moscow, 2007, page 137. These letters are in GARF.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #438 on: October 18, 2010, 07:49:54 AM »
By April 1892 Sergei and Ella had been married for almost eight years. It's rather different from Alexander III remarking at the time of the marriage that Sergei would never know the jots of children.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #439 on: October 18, 2010, 08:01:59 AM »
I agree...that seems a bit unusual.

Offline Magdalena

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #440 on: October 18, 2010, 09:05:49 AM »
to me, matushka's quotes still don't say precisely that he was homosexual, do they?
anyway, i always wonder why people keep on continuing that he was gay. KR also had male partners, ans so? he had kids.

i don't won't to offence anyone here, believe me, people, we all think about it and we all consider many possibilites - maybe he was indeed homosexual, but when i read about him, to me, it's more likely that he was just unable to have kids because of some medical problems. that's my opinion, and I respect yours of course :)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #441 on: October 18, 2010, 09:12:26 AM »
Alexander III's letter reads to me as though he was resigned to Sergei and Ella remaining childless, as in eight years no children had appeared. It does not carry any suggestion that he knew that Sergei was homosexual (if indeed he was or Alexander knew it).

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #442 on: October 19, 2010, 05:43:38 PM »
Well...It is to Alexander III's nature to tackle with homosexuality much less to mention it. He did not mention KR either, although he must have known about it.

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #443 on: October 19, 2010, 11:22:02 PM »
Ella and Serge's sex life would be forever a mystery to us.

I doubt Serge is gay, maybe bisexual but gay? no.
as for Ella just because your childless doesn't mean you don't have sexual relations with your husband. Maybe she couldn't have children, that happens you know, not all women can bare a child.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #444 on: October 20, 2010, 01:29:35 AM »

He did not mention KR either, although he must have known about it.

And how he must  have known? Read his private diaries? Put a tail on him everywhere? You again speculate.

We'll never knew the truth about Sergei and Elziaveta. It's a solid fact.

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #445 on: October 20, 2010, 10:37:06 AM »
I agree, it will ever be a mystery and they toke it to the graves with them.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #446 on: October 20, 2010, 01:52:05 PM »
Svetabel...Sometimes I think you really astound me. the Tsar had spies everywhere even his own family. Like Franz Josef of Austria knew about his son's activities long before he did anything about it. The fact that KR visited bath houses might made known to him in one of those reports.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #447 on: October 20, 2010, 10:08:58 PM »
Svetabel...Sometimes I think you really astound me. the Tsar had spies everywhere even his own family. Like Franz Josef of Austria knew about his son's activities long before he did anything about it. The fact that KR visited bath houses might made known to him in one of those reports.

I am not that naive and understand that the Tzar had spies, eyes and ears everywhere. I didn't mean that Alexander didn't know anything, I just said that you speculated, as nothing was proven.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #448 on: October 22, 2010, 05:05:39 PM »
If the Tsar has spies everywhere, why wouldn't he know about Serge & KR's homosexuality. That is not specualtion, that is reasonable assumption. The fact that Alexander III chose not to speak about it does not mean he did not know about it. Therefore his comments on Serge merits more study, as it is most certainly comes from someone who has the inside knowledge on it.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: GDss Ella and GD Sergei's childlessness
« Reply #449 on: October 22, 2010, 09:45:12 PM »
If the Tsar has spies everywhere, why wouldn't he know about Serge & KR's homosexuality. That is not specualtion, that is reasonable assumption. The fact that Alexander III chose not to speak about it does not mean he did not know about it. Therefore his comments on Serge merits more study, as it is most certainly comes from someone who has the inside knowledge on it.

If we don't know for sure and sources don't speak anything it's speculation. Here I mean only KR, as Alexander didn't say anything and never hinted on something in the sources (correspondence,.f.e.) on him. And by the way, if you want discuss KR - let's go to his topic.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 09:51:31 PM by Svetabel »