The Cheka handguns used to kill the IF and why they couldn't shoot straight
JamesAPrattIII:
LDR statesabout 57 bullets were found in the murder room and the three grave sites. Some of the 25 bullets found at the main Pig's meadow grave site were as of the result of firing into jars of sulfuric acid used to disfigure ect the bodies. It also would be nice if someone produce a complete inventory of all the bullets found. it would also be nice if some people could do some balsic finger printing on the bullets to see who shot from where or even who shot who ect.
Also note the S&W and some or possibly all of the Nagants used are Single action revolvers. Which means you have to cock the hammer back every time you want to fire one. This does slow down the rate of fire somewhat of these shooters. who as I have pointed out earier they may not have been very knowledgable about shooting and handguns to begin with. This is also another reason why so few shots were fired.
AGRBear:
On several of these threads I counted the bullets found, gave pictures of some of them and gave sources. Also showed the diagrams as to the skeletons found and the bullet holes were noted. The guns I could find were also pictured. As I find these threads, I'll note them here.
Then we can make a new list.
AGRBear
AGRBear:
Quote from: AGRBear on November 16, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
Quote from: Belochka on September 28, 2007, 05:23:17 AM
This morning, Friday September 28, 2007 a media Conference was given by the assistant Director of the Sverdlovsk Forensic Medicine Bureau Vladimir Gromov. He announced the preliminary findings of the 2007 excavation remains.
They examined the 6 whole teeth and one tooth fragment. Silver amalgam fillings were found embedded in these teeth analogous with the dental work of the teeth identified in the 1991 excavation remains.
In addition, of the 48 bone fragments, 29 are not able to be identified at this stage. Many bone fragments are less than one gram in weight. Traces of gunshot wounds were also found on bone fragments.
These initial macroscopic observations are the first of many investigations to be undertaken in the next several months.
In addition Gromov has also announced that negotiations are proceeding with international DNA specialists to participate later in this Inquiry.
Margarita Nelipa
I think that covers what was found in the graves found in 2007.
Quote from: Belochka on October 12, 2007, 11:17:36 PM
October 12, 2007
Ballistics Results on the Ekaterinburg 2007 remains
Senior Procurator Vladimir Soloviev, who heads the Second Ekaterinburg Inquiry has announced the following ballistics results:
1. The remains show evidence that two Browning revolvers were used. One weapon was a 1903 issue. The second weapon was a 1900 issue.
2. The bullets that were discharged from these two weapons were the same as those that were found at the 1990's excavation location which contained the remains of Nikolai II, Alexandra Fedorovna and the other members of the Imperial Family + staff.
Margarita Nelipa
This is an update/ 2010: http://www.youtube.com/user/SnowyHistory#p/u/3/HonT60qAB0g
After farther testing of the 2 bullets found in the graves of 2007, the marks on the two bullets do NOT match the earlier bullets found. The third is too damage to be tested.
All three are the same caliber and date around 1900 and they are different calibers than the bullets found earlier than 2007.
I think that brings everyone up to the present.
AGRBear
I presume the photo is no longer is available, which is too bad. Perhaps someone has saved it and can add it to this thread.
AGRBear:
Quote from: AGRBear on February 22, 2006, 04:36:06 PM
Quote
No, but rifle butts & bayonets will do the job in a pinch. :P
There was extensive damage to the facial bones, remember, consistent with blows from rifle butts. Granted, we can't know how much of that damage was inflicted post-mortem. And, since we have no soft tissue to examine, it's equally impossible to know the extent of the damage inflicted by bayonets, even without the puzzle of diamond corset/armor...
If you look at the list of guns handed out by Yurovsky to the other executioners, there are no rifles involved.
Quote
Quote
...[in part]...
Yourvsky's account:
p. 634 LIFELONG PASSION
>>Yurovsky On the morning of the 16th....
Twleve revolvers were prepared, and it was decided who would shoot at whom. Conrade Filipp [Goloschekin] informed me that a lorry would come at midnight, that the newcomers were to be admitted on giving the password, and the bodies handed over to them, to be taken away for burial."<<
....
ARBear
THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS by King and Wilson p. 297:
>>...He ordered Medvedev to collect the revolvers from al of the guards on exterior duty. When Medvedev returned, he placed the assembled collection on the desk in the commandant's office, leaving Yurovsky to sort through the arssenal with which the crime would be committed. Fourteen guns were used that night. There were six pistoles: a .28-caliber** (6.43 mm) Browning; a .32-caliber (7.63* mm) Browning; two .45-caliber (11.43) American Colts; and two .32-caliber (7.63 mm) Mausers; and eight revolvers: a .42-caliber (10.66 mm) Smith and Wesson; four .30 - caliber (7.62 mm) Nagants; and three .35-caliber (9mm) Nagants. The most powerful weapons were the two [p. 298] Maussers, with a velocity of 1,400 feet per second. Of the fourteen guns, nine--all of the Nagants, and the Colts --used gunpower to fire their bullets, causing a discharge of smoke and caustic fumes. Among them, they held a total of 103 shots.<<
AGRBear
PS
*& **Error in typing corrected:
Quote
...[in part]...
Dear Mrs. Bear,
Using the information that you posted above, I started to research the technical specifications of the fireams that you listed. I did however find some inaccuracies in this list which may simply be explained by mistyping. For example:
.28 caliber (6.43 mm) Browning- Browning did not make a .28 cal. but rather a .25 cal. pistol.
.32-caliber (7.73 mm) Browning- Metric conversion of a .32 cal. cartridge is 7.63 mm rather than 7.73 mm.
....
David
The bayonet used by Ermakov was said to have been "detached".
There are two threads which talk just about the bayonet/bayonets used.
The smashing of faces used by rifles wasn't done until just before the nine bodies were placed into the mass grave in Pig's Meadow. These are the kind of blows Maples mentioned to several skulls like Marie's. I forget the number at the moment.
AGRBear
AGRBear:
Quote from: AGRBear on February 22, 2006, 07:03:13 PM
DEAD MEN DO TELL TALES by William R. Maples, PH.D. p. 252:
>>In all, foureen bullets were recovered from the grave, along with the remains of one had grenade detonator. All the bullets were 7.62, 7.63 or 7.65, about the equivaent of .32-caliber bullets. The Russians told us they believed nine of the bullets came from Nagants, four came possibly from a Browning and one from some other gun, possibly a Mauser. These bullet had almost certainly lodged in the bodies at the time of death but twelve of them had gradually come loose as the remains decomposed.<<
Since I have not seen any of Maples actual reports, I do not know how he came to this conclusion about the bullet being in the remains found in the mass grave.
p. 254 Maples continues:
>>The bodies Numbers 2,3 and 6, had though -and-through gunshot wounds to the head. Another body, No. 9, had stab wound in the breastbone that could have been made by a bayonet.<<
AGRBear
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