Author Topic: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?  (Read 28245 times)

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Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2006, 01:20:17 PM »
I sometimes wish the Whites had stormed the Ipatiev House shot all those awful guards and rescued the family, servants and pets.

I honestly think they would have been happiest in England in a lovely Hall or Manor House in the country (near Sandringham perhaps? it is beautoful there) where Nicky could do the gardening etc. Also they would have had so much family support, Xenia, Minnie, Queen Alexandra, GV and May, Alixs aunts, Marie Louise, Victoria etc etc...

I think the Grand Duchesses and Alexei could have been free to mix with people their own age and enjoy themselves without the risk of being bombed etc

Also, not forgetting the sweet little doggies, they would have plenty of space to run round and enjoy themselves, no dog likes being in captivity do they???

I can dream....:)
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2006, 02:51:32 PM »
I would think of America [Canada or the USA] as merely a transit point.  They were far too European in culture and family to do well here permanently. I also think Tania's is a good scenario- France.  Even as a republic, France was rather fond of them was it not? It even took in and was quite generous to the Windsors. I think France likes exiles, to some extent at least.
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Offline romonovqueen18

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2006, 11:56:11 AM »
 i have read some of these posts and i have came to the conclusion if they did survive they would probably   would have continued to be rich but not with all thier titles they would probably live somewhere by the ocean nicholas would be like a lawyer or something other Alexandra a house wife with less duties than had originally , the children well they would continue on with thier private education  up to 12th and then go off to college to become whatever they would like to become they would marry normal average society people but of course people from the same status of the people they graduated with. and from the way the talk about alexei i could see him becoming a musican  or something a pianist  or if not  that a lawyer.  and the girls they wouldnt want to be housewifes they would go out a accomplish works probably aviation or teachers or spokesperson or something i could see olga being a spokesperson, i could tatiana  flying around in airplanes and i could maria and anastasia being actresses  like  grace kelly  they would be fantastic actresses , dont you think?

Offline Dandywell

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2006, 03:18:54 PM »
wow, I can't believe this is still here
She stepped away from me and she moved through the fair,
And fondly I watched her move here and move there,
Then she went her way homeward with one star awake,
As the swan in the evening moves over the lake.

Offline granduchess_leah

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2006, 06:18:25 AM »
well i think this

olga would marry a russian and stay in russia
tatiana would marry and stay near
marie would successed in her dreams
anastasia would of married and become a actress
alexie would marry and become tsar
na would get older
and grandchildren will come along ...

Offline James_Davidov

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2007, 07:33:32 PM »
Quote



As everyone knows the IF wanted to set up in England…
James.

I will have to disagree with that point.
I don't think that they "wanted to set up in England" because I don't think that Nicholas was ever seriously convinced that he would "have to go." (to leave Russia.)

I would guess that the "English refuge" myth comes from some of  Massie's works.

rskkiya


Some points

When I wrote ‘set up’ I meant go into exile.  Naturally NII wanted to stay in his country, but we do know that England was a foremost choice of exile, as it is today along with other democratic countries.

I also think it is safe to conclude that after a period of exile in somewhere like Denmark, the Imperial Family would have been permitted to settle somewhere in England.  The ‘British choice’ was a fearful reaction to the instability of the moment, after a period; perhaps sometimes during the 1920s, there would not have been such a decisive reaction.

I believe the Imperial Family would have pursued a life in England (as many of their Romanov relations did) here they would have felt much safer and been in a position to establish a ‘government in exile’ (a historical trend) which would have been difficult in America.

I also believe the daughters would have made sentimental marriages with Russian aristocratic exiles or wealthy English aristocrats.  The turbulence of Europe would have been a major concern, and it would have been a priority for both NII and their daughters to marry into wealthy families who were able to provide them with financial security.  In saying that however, had they been in London as young marriageable women they would have come into contact with thousands of potential suitors. . . and if permitted ion their new circumstances to ‘marry for love’, well Anastasia could have married a Irish poet, Marie a Argentinean cattle baron, Tatiana and English Baron and Olga a New York billionaire of the likes of Astor or Vanderbilt. 


james
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ferngully

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2007, 05:19:29 AM »
'olga would marry a russian and stay in russia
tatiana would marry and stay near
marie would successed in her dreams
anastasia would of married and become a actress
alexie would marry and become tsar'

there are a couple of things unlikely with that. olga would not have been able to stay in russia just as much as alexei would have not been able to become tsar due to his short life expectancy and the fact that no-one wanted the royals back in the country after the war and revolution, even just to live. if anastasia was to become an actress, being married wouldn't have been high on her priorities perhaps and marie's dream was to get married and have kids, which is clearly what you didn't write and therfore anyone new wouldn't have known what her dream was. the only one of those predictions that was the most likely would be tatiana's. sorry to nitpick

Offline James_Davidov

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2007, 06:31:14 PM »
'olga would marry a russian and stay in russia
tatiana would marry and stay near
marie would successed in her dreams
anastasia would of married and become a actress
alexie would marry and become tsar'


Sorry to nit pick in return, but I doubt (based on no examples of a woman of her position doing similar) that Anastasia would have become an actress, such illusions were often the fantasy’s of princesses who occupied their time with plays and ballet, however a professional career on stage was considered vulgar for any princess or prince.  There are examples of lower ranking noblewomen forging careers in Hollywood etc, but none of first rank royals contemplating such a thing.  It’s interesting to note many developed writing careers (a form of art that is regarded considerably higher – an intellectual pursuit) but even they penned their works under pseudonyms. 

Basically you have to remember that the last Imperial Family were very conservative, they would have taken extreme care in exile to present themselves as worthy of the throne they had been thrown from. . . . I am positive that had they not been executed and fled into exile, the Bolsheviks would have dedicated a greater amount of their resources to propaganda and ensuring that the Russian public had no sympathies for them. . . . Had Alexei matured and become a handsome, intelligent and capable monarch in exile, the soviets would have been very nervous, and probably gone on a spree of destruction (destroying palaces and churches . . .) anything that could have acted as a basis for imperialist sympathy.

James
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Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2007, 04:13:36 PM »
The thing is, if the IF has to be saved, it needs two facts:

-To take them all out of Russia.
-To do it ASAP before the Boksheviks are in power.

So, more or less things goes on like that... -let me add that most of the ideas here expressed are inspired in a solution suggested by a friend of mine some time ago, along with some other ideas about what may had happen during the Great War.

On March 1917, after several strikes that almost stop the country, the government cannot rely on its own tools, for the units of the army sent to disperse the marchers had mutinied, joining the striking workers. Nicholas II, aware of the extent of the crisis, attempts to journey to Petrograd to bring order to the empire, but he ends stranded at Pskov, the headquarters of his North West Front commander, General Ruzsky. The Duma  urges the Tsar to abdicate, endorsed by many generals, Ruzsky included. Aware that the army would not remain loyal to his rule, the Tsar accepts the inevitable and abdicated the throne on 13th March 1917 on his brother, the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich.

But he hesitates, thinking that he needs the popular blessing to rule by a popular mandate. This is not to be, for the Duma has opened negotiations with the Petrograd Soviet. Lvov and Kerensky are able to dissuade a reluctant Mikhail from replacing Nicholas. Unsure of Mikhail’s intentions and overestimating the strength of the Romanov dynasty, the Soviet agreed to allow Nicholas’ family safekeeping at Tsarskoe Selo, and remarkably, immunity from trial for Nicholas. In return, the Soviet received their essential demands: the establishment of a republic and that the Soviets acquire control of the armed forces, communications and transport. On 15th March, the Provisional Government is established with Prince Lvov at its head.

In London, Lloyd George is unsurprised at Nicholas’ abdication, and welcome the end of the Romanov dynasty’s rule in Russia as a positive manifestation for the Allies.  Meanwhile, the former Tsars makes a number of requests to the new government in Petrograd, asking for free passage to Tsarskoe Selo, permission to reside at the Alexander Palace until his children recover from measles and a free pass from Tsarskoe Selo to Romanov-on-Murman, on the Barents Sea coast. Generously, the government accepts, yet a circulating rumour that the Romanovs are planning to restore the monarchy threatened to destroy these arrangements. The Soviet demands that Nicholas and his family are detained at Tsarskoe Selo, and the government complies. Worried because the the safety of the erstwhile Tsar is far from assured, the Foreign Minister sends a telegram to London pleading that the Romanovs are given asylum in Britain.

The next day, the British government met to discuss the affaire. Concluding from the plea that Nicholas’ life is in danger, it is agreed to offer the Romanovs asylum in England for the duration of the war, on condition that the government in Petrograd forwarded funds for the family’s upkeep. The Provisional Government’s gives its consent for the moving of the Romanovs to England. However, George V raises concerns over the possibility of Nicholas being granted safe haven in Britain. Preferring Switzerland or Denmark as a home for his deposed cousin, he expresses his doubts about the wisdom of a move to Britain. Concerned for the future of the throne in Britain, the King is not inclined to be associated with an autocrat married to a German. His apprehension is accentuated by the reply of the government, stating blandly that the invitation had already been made.

to be continued...

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2007, 04:14:13 PM »
Official opinion is also wary of the effects that the Romanovs arrival in Britain would have on the stability of the King’s reign. It is pointed out in a telegram to London that Nicholas’ presence in the country would be exploited by German agents in Russia, much to the detriment of Britain’s standing. If the King was already reluctant to see the Romanovs enter Britain, he is now wholly opposed, and he asks Lloyd George to withdraw the invitation. The British government is not prepared to shut the door on Nicholas just yet. Lloyd George asks Paris whether France is prepared to accept the former Tsar. The response os positive, and channels of communication between Paris and Petrograd are opened to bring the Romanovs safe transit to France. Whilst this fact birightens the prospects of Nicholas and his family, the indecision of the Soviet do so further. Whilst extremists seek his imprisonment and trial, others are haunted by the spectre of the revolution being curtailed by resurgent tsarism, and desired only that the Romanov family is exiled and the republic set in stone. On his part, Nicholas, originally unwilling to leave Russia on account of the illness of his children, is heartened by their recent recovery, and countenances a move to France with less foreboding. On 28th March, it is made an official request to France that asylum be granted, with the French government giving its assent two days later. Meanwhile, the British and French agree that there is little time, and the Admiralty notifies a submarine on patrol in the North Sea, the J6, of the need to safely extract the Romanovs from Russian territory, and orders it to journey to Romanov-on-Murman. Meanwhile, Nicholas and his family travelled to the Barents Sea port. Few people can watch  the Imperial Train travelling northwards and taking its occupants to relative safety.

By 4th April, the Romanovs are housed in strikingly unremarkable accommodation in the recently established port, waiting expectantly for the Royal Navy to arrive. At last, and to the family’s immense relief, a submarine surfaced, and Nicholas cast his eyes on J6’s White Ensign, auguring salvation. Watched by a company of loyal troops, the last of the ruling Romanovs unceremoniously board the J6, taking up their cramped rooms on board the vessel – graciously, the captain offered his cabin to Nicholas and Alexandra.

Maximum secrecy surrounds the arrival of J6 at Rosyth on 10th April. The Romanovs, wearing unassuming clothing, are quietly hustled into motor cars and driven to Waverley train station, Edinburgh. From here, a special train tooks them to King’s Cross, London, where they are secretly driven to Buckingham Palace, where the King greets them emotively. After dining together, the Romanovs are driven to Charing Cross, where they took a train to the south coast, and, from there. ferried to Calais, to be finally railed to the south of France, to take up accommodation in Nice, on the Côte d'Azur. The revelation that Nicholas have been granted asylum do not provoke any debate in France, where republican ideals are too deeply ingrained to be offended by the arrival of the former Tsar.



Well, that was the theory that my friend made up, but I would like to think that Spain was a better place for the Romanovs -at least, the weather is better ;D

And now that I've taken them safely out of Russia, please, give me some time to guess what comes next... ;)

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2007, 01:04:40 PM »
Well, this is not, strictly speaking, a continuation of my previous posts, but some kind of planning....

Good... It's april 1917 and the IF is in France. The Great War would be raging on as it went historically- I don't think that anything would have changed very much, had the IF been rescued and send to exile. So, we can skip some years and go directly to 1918. Russia would still go directly into chaos.

The Provisional Government under Lvov fails to put down the social unrest (which caused the October Revolution). Perhaps it might have lasted longer. But if the war goes on, and the Kerenski offensive happens and plus the failure to garantee peace and reform still keep happening, I bet that here would be too much for the tired Russia. Furthermore, having created a precedent for violent change of government, the liberal government would be too weak to resist a coup d'etat. Perhaps Kornilov would not try his coup -or perhaps he would. If he doesn't do it, the Bolsheviks would have no excuse to arm themselves and to create the Red Guards. Perhaps this may avoid/delay -more possible the latter than the former...- the October Revolution.

However, if the October Revolution comes and the Civil War erupts... Time to go on thinking...

Offline Amanda_Misha

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2007, 09:29:00 PM »
Not you for that but I think that they would have had a pretty house in the field where the girls took care of flowers with their mother, where Nicolás could be calm seeing grow to their daughters and taken Alexei of the hand with their wife.
It is sad to think of what was never :'(
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TheAce1918

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2007, 01:20:02 AM »
Another unfortunate aspect that we've got to see is that there weren't too many likely places for the Romanovs to evacuate to.  America, UK, and France were out of the question in 1918...the governments of each nation were fully in depth if not, drained by the war.  Prime Minister David Lloyd George publicly declared in late 1917 that England would never take the royal family, for there were fears of communist uprisings in the UK...France had similar issues, however not as vast.  And the American government simply hated the Romanovs...at least that is what our President Wilson declared...he was a radical traditionalist and despised monarchies.  He knew how the Romanovs had ruled Russia, and also knew that it would also be a huge gamble to house a royal family with bloody ties in the 'land of the free', a place that was a salad bowl of many Slavs, Jews, Blue-Collar people that had left Russia and Europe to get away from the monarchies in the first place...only to find similar crude conditions.  If that was a ruse, then the Federal Portection Program could have them underneath assumed names and whatnot.  Same conditions in other Western nations. 

Its horrible to know that this is what happened, considering that many brass-heads at the time never looked at this issue on a humane level.  Considering the war forced many to reconsider what was humane and what was not. 

There's even more.  If they had been rescued and sent to America or England in exile...the Bolsheviks would know it...and they had ways to stretch their hands across the seas.  Years later, Stalin would send assassins after members of the Communist Party who were in hiding around the world...and killed them, of course he was a paranoid loony toon.  This refers back to the whole Witness Protection bit...it was perfectly possible for them to be underneath the protection of the American federal government...but unlikely on account of the Washington radicals. 

Wow...I thought I'd never stop!  Sorry guys...lol...can't help myself sometimes.  Don't hate :-\ 

LondonGirl

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2011, 02:34:31 PM »
Most likely leave for England - or maybe Scotland. They repeatedly expressed a desire to live simply in England. I am quite sure that is what they would have done given choice.

Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: What would They Have Done if They Had Survived?
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2011, 04:32:43 PM »
I know there was a lot of talk about England, but would it have to have been England? The British Empire was still very much in existance in those days and they had territory up the ying-yang ... why couldn't George V have sent them to some quiet little corner of the Empire where they wouldn't attract attention. What about Australia or the Falklands or something?