Author Topic: Rurik descent  (Read 25019 times)

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Offline Greenowl

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Re: Rurik descent
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 07:47:58 AM »
Gagarin is simply a nickname derived from гагара, loon, and described an ancestor who either had the black-and-white colouring or long neck of a loon, the shrill laughter of a loon or was odd (and solitary?) as a loon. So Gagarin can best be translated as Looney.


This is interesting because the English (slang??) word "ga-ga" refers to someone who is extremely enthusiastic about or interested in something or someone who is crazy or foolish, thus very similar in terms of meaning. I think that "loon" is connected to "moon" (as in people being a bit odd/unbalanced at the time of the full moon), thus an interesting parallel to Yuri Gargarin.

MONIKA

Offline Превед

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Re: Rurik descent
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 08:19:58 AM »
This is interesting because the English (slang??) word "ga-ga" refers to someone who is extremely enthusiastic about or interested in something or someone who is crazy or foolish, thus very similar in terms of meaning. I think that "loon" is connected to "moon" (as in people being a bit odd/unbalanced at the time of the full moon), thus an interesting parallel to Yuri Gargarin.

Interesting theories:
Ga-ga seems to come from French (see http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaga) and is connected to infantilism and universal baby speech. But of course the Russians may have named the loon thus because it can sound like a baby crying at night. Interestingly loons are called kuikka and kaakkuri in Finnish and tuhtuu / tohtti, ghkkor in Sami, i.e. also names that sound like onomatopoetic renditions of cries. Or is this an example of the Finno-Ugric substrate in Russian culture? Waterfowls are central in Finnish mythology.

But as good as a lunar etymology would fit with Yuriy Gagarin, English loon seems to have the same etymology as the loon's Scandinavian name. lom: Lummox, lame, lam, lahm. I.e. reffering to its inability to walk on land. Still a fun reference to the weightlessness Gagarin experienced!

Of course it's very possible that folk etymology has made a connection between loon / looney and lunatic and thus loon has indeed become a short form of lunatic in English-speaking countries.

But people who are gaga in the sense of childishly enthusiastic I would not connect with the solitary, mostly taciturn loons. Rather with ducks or geese, i.e. what in good Dutch / goed Duits would be snacken or snattern. :-)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 08:32:06 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Rurik descent
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 01:46:32 PM »
These days ga-ga is mostly used in English-English to denote someone in the latter stages of dementia - 'Poor old X is completely ga-ga these days'.

Ann

Offline Превед

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Re: Rurik descent
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2014, 02:06:55 PM »
These days ga-ga is mostly used in English-English to denote someone in the latter stages of dementia - 'Poor old X is completely ga-ga these days'.

In my childhood we used the names of certain members of the IF to denote something that was uncool and demented: Olga and Nils (Norwegian form of Nicholas), due to them being typical old people's names. E.g. that's sooo Olga / Nils! And indeed those who were very old in the 1990s could very well have been born during the life and times of Nicholas Alexandrovich and Olga Nicholayevna.

In Norwegian babytalk gagge is duck, due to gakk-gakk being the sound a duck makes. So there is probably something about ga-ga being an easy sound to make for toddlers.

BTW do you guys know that Nikita is the Greek / Orthodox version of Victor, from Greek νικήτας, victor. Νίκη, victory, just like in Nikolaos!



« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 02:13:09 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Rurik descent
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 01:43:12 PM »
Interesting stuff from genetic studies of the Rurikides:

According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern male line descendants.[9] But while genetically related to the later Baltic Finnic peoples, the Rurikids do not possess the DYS390=24 mutation associated with the Finnic languages, theirs remaining the ancestral DYS390=23, with the Rurikid haplotype itself (all values considered) more closely associated with [North] Germanic speakers (Varangians).[10]

Further genetic studies seem to indicate the existence of two major haplogroups among modern Rurikids: the descendants of Vladimir II Monomakh (Monomakhoviches) and some others are of N1c1 group (130 people or 68%), while the descendants of a junior prince from the branch of Oleg I of Chernigov (Olgoviches) and some others (total 45 peoples or 24%) are of R1a and R1b haplogroups typical for Slavic, Germanic and Celtic peoples.


Interesting that Rurik and Gediminas of Lithuania, the ancestor of the Gediminid princes (Galitsins, Trubetskoys etc.), shared an ancestor some 2500 years ago.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historical_and_famous_figures#Rurik_of_Novgorod
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/rurikid/default.aspx?section=news
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/rurikid/default.aspx?section=yresults
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:54:18 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Rurik descent
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2014, 03:03:58 PM »
Lol, гага means eider (the duck prized for its down) in Russian!
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)