Author Topic: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.  (Read 188779 times)

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Offline Princess of Cupertino

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2013, 12:48:36 AM »
I see Gisela in this portrait.

Dorotheum had this one as young empress Elisabeth of Austria s portrait.



Offline Greenowl

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2013, 07:52:00 AM »
I agree, it reminds me more of Gisela than of her mother....could it be a mistake? It really looks different to any drawings or paintings I've seen of the young Elisabeth.

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Offline Jen_94

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2013, 02:40:38 PM »
I've looked at pics of Gisela and it does look fairly similar to her.

Just a question: did Gisela and Sissi look alike do you think?

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2013, 05:06:33 PM »
No, I don't think they looked alike...Empress Elisabeth would have been shocked at the mere idea, as she always considered that Gisela was not graceful and very clumsy. When Gisela's eldest daughter was born Elisabeth is supposed to have commented that her first grandchild was: "very noisy and ugly and looks just like Gisela !". Not very nice!

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2013, 05:51:07 PM »
In my opinion - I do think Gisela looked like a less pretty version of her mother the Empress Elisabeth and had her father the Emperor Franz Josef coloring and the “Hapsburg jaw”- a true Hapsburg Princess! Besides The Archduchess Gisela was a humble good person (also unlike her mother lived an uninteresting life), she may not have her mother’s famous beauty but she did have some prettiness about her like all women and in her youth she was quite pretty.

Also to me the Empress wasn’t that beautiful but indeed very pretty (however I seen prettier – not just in looks but also in personality) but alas she was obsessively vain over her vanity, extremely selfish person and such an Imperial brat! Which is a real turn off!

 For facts - The Empress did blame the death of her 2 year old eldest daughter Sophie on the baby Gisela which was immature and cruel of the young Empress, I can see why the Archduchess took control of the children from the start!

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2013, 04:09:04 AM »
While I don't accept that Gisela looked like a less pretty version of her mother the Empress Elisabeth (or at least I fail to see any great resemblance), I fully agree with everything else you say, especially that she was a good and humble good person and pretty in her youth. I looked back at old posts on the topic and was interested to note that someone commented several years ago that Gisela would have been considered very attractive in the early 1960's as her features "fitted in" with the fashion of that era. 

The Empress was obsessively vain, extremely selfish and made a "cult" out of her beauty. The fact that she allowed no photos after the age of about 30 and always hid her face behind a parasol or fan meant that the only images available were those paintings and photos from her youth, which perpetuated the legend of her beauty. Her assassin is supposed to have stated that he expected her to be beautiful, but in fact she was ugly. Seemingly her skin was affected by the ravages of time and excessive outdoor physical activity, thus she became very wrinkled and old-looking. Seems difficult to imagine, but makes sense, as she was almost 61 years old at the time of her assassination. 

Offline Jen_94

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2013, 06:13:27 AM »
Ah, thank you for your answers. I'm just beginning to learn a little more about Gisela right now. I can't believe that the Empress blamed Sophie's death on Gisela, that is just cruel of her to do that.

I am just looking at that famous last photo of the empress and her lady in waiting in Switzerland, yes, she did not seemed to have aged that well at all. Some people do look naturally good for their age at 60, some don't, and I'm guessing Elisabeth was probably one of those who didn't. 

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2013, 11:27:50 AM »
I think also a reason why Empress Elisabeth ignored Gisela was because that she was raised by her grandmother the Archduchess Sophie and to the Empress, the archduchess was her rival and “somewhat imagine”  enemy for her husband the Emperor’s affections also to the fact that Gisela wasn’t a beauty and that the Empress was  vain over looks. 

Think of this that you’re a vain pretty and young Empress of a powerful empire, known throughout the world as “one of the most beautiful and graceful women in the world” and while it most is a thorn to your side that your own daughter is a plain and clumsy child, must have annoyed the Empress Elisabeth!

 My idea of the Empress thought of her daughter Gisela as just a second archduchess Sophie that’s a plain little girl compeer to her beauty and responsible for her sister’s death. Very unfair of the Empress.  Secondly when Gisela was small she favored her grandmother over her mother which also possibly hurt the Empress which made their relationship strained for life and completely ignore Gisela. Again very mean Sisi!

Also to the fact that Empress Elisabeth thought her mother-in-law was ‘an in-law from hell types’ however to the Archduchess and in my opinion was right about Elisabeth’s immaturity and lack her role as Empress, which of course isn’t truly Elisabeth’s or anyone’s fault.  Totally one of those “stuff happens”.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 11:31:51 AM by Mandie, the Gothic Empress »

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2013, 12:06:46 PM »
*Personally I can't look Gisela on that portrait, IMO she looks much Wittelsbach and Gisela didn't take (IMO) very much of that side, she's more a Habsburg to me.

Quote
I can see why the Archduchess took control of the children from the start!

*I disagree in this topic a bit: Although she at least wasn't much better than the immature Sissi (I won't deny the fact that she wasn't prepared to take the role of Empress, wife and mother) despite her "experience". The Arduchess Sophie also commited big mistakes with her grandchildren, mainly with little Rudolph, when she appointed that awful tutor that she choosed and who wasn't the best option for the child. I think that she choosed to take the control of the kids since the begining for her domineering personality, not in vain she was considered the "real empress" on her time. She wanted all could be done as she said, she wanted to control everything. Although the topic isn't about Sophie, so I end here.

*About Sissi in old age: I also think that her extreme fast (she survived just with a few milk glasses and meat bouillon for many years) didn't help her to age well, possibly that made her to look much more old and damaged than she really was, well, just my thought. There aren't much photos of her (in good quality) of that time, but I agree with Jen, in her last photo of Switzerland she looks much (badly different) different than in her youth photos and that's why she became obssesed of not being seen or photographed because the myth of her beauty would have faded.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 12:14:09 PM by Yelena Aleksandrovna »

Offline Jen_94

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2013, 01:06:03 PM »
Would another reason that the Empress ignored Gisela be was because she wasn't a boy? Like, she was disappointed she had another girl and wanted an heir-a son after having Sophie? Just a thought that ran through my mind....

For facts - The Empress did blame the death of her 2 year old eldest daughter Sophie on the baby Gisela which was immature and cruel of the young Empress, I can see why the Archduchess took control of the children from the start!

Why did she blame the death of Sophie on Gisela? Just curious.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2013, 01:47:18 PM »
Would another reason that the Empress ignored Gisela be was because she wasn't a boy? Like, she was disappointed she had another girl and wanted an heir-a son after having Sophie? Just a thought that ran through my mind....

I don't think so, in honor of the truth she wasn't either much warm with her only son Rudolph (and this despite that the boy admired and adored his mother very much). In general she wasn't a warm and loving mother with her older kids. The only child who was loved by Sissi (in fact, she was overprotective with her) was the youngest, Marie Valerie, IMO because she was the only that she could care personally. I don't see on her any other outstanding characteristic in her rather than in her siblings.

Why did she blame the death of Sophie on Gisela? Just curious.

I think that Sissi considered that Gisela was guilty of her sister's death at being she the one who got sick first during that trip to Hungary, finally she infected Sophie of the same illness (diarrhea and fever). Gisela recovered but Sophie died after several days, in some place I read that Sophie tended to be unhealthy. After the death of the girl, Sissi blamed herself too for taking the girls with her not minding that her mother in law adviced her of not doing that because the girls haven't been much well, but in the other side she considered that her 1 year old daughter was responsible too!! :-/
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 01:54:56 PM by Yelena Aleksandrovna »

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2013, 02:19:36 PM »
*Personally I can't look Gisela on that portrait, IMO she looks much Wittelsbach and Gisela didn't take (IMO) very much of that side, she's more a Habsburg to me.

Quote
I can see why the Archduchess took control of the children from the start!

*I disagree in this topic a bit: Although she at least wasn't much better than the immature Sissi (I won't deny the fact that she wasn't prepared to take the role of Empress, wife and mother) despite her "experience". The Arduchess Sophie also commited big mistakes with her grandchildren, mainly with little Rudolph, when she appointed that awful tutor that she choosed and who wasn't the best option for the child. I think that she choosed to take the control of the kids since the begining for her domineering personality, not in vain she was considered the "real empress" on her time. She wanted all could be done as she said, she wanted to control everything. Although the topic isn't about Sophie, so I end here.


Indeed, I do agree on that, the Archduchess Sophie may have not been better then the Empress at raising children - but at least the Archduchess was loving and affectionate to Gisela unlike the Empress. Ironically though with the Archduchess raising the children it did start the strain relationships between the Empress with Gisela and Rudolf.

but when the Empress DID get her way with her children’s upbringing, she completely ignored Gisela and favored Rudolf (sadly the damage of the ruthless tutor had already been done AND the Archduchess was wrong on that topic!) but kept her distance since the Empress known the children prefer their grandmother and later favored over her youngest Marie Valerie while ignoring Rudolf.

My question is if the Empress did raise her children from the start and little Sophie whom got ill from Gisela and died, will the Empress still blame the baby for the death of her eldest? Possibly so and would ignore Gisela still!

Offline Jen_94

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2013, 04:17:31 PM »
Would another reason that the Empress ignored Gisela be was because she wasn't a boy? Like, she was disappointed she had another girl and wanted an heir-a son after having Sophie? Just a thought that ran through my mind....

I don't think so, in honor of the truth she wasn't either much warm with her only son Rudolph (and this despite that the boy admired and adored his mother very much). In general she wasn't a warm and loving mother with her older kids. The only child who was loved by Sissi (in fact, she was overprotective with her) was the youngest, Marie Valerie, IMO because she was the only that she could care personally. I don't see on her any other outstanding characteristic in her rather than in her siblings.

Ah I understand now. That is a shame she wasn't warm towards Rudolph, when he was towards her and that he adored her too.
 
Why did she blame the death of Sophie on Gisela? Just curious.

I think that Sissi considered that Gisela was guilty of her sister's death at being she the one who got sick first during that trip to Hungary, finally she infected Sophie of the same illness (diarrhea and fever). Gisela recovered but Sophie died after several days, in some place I read that Sophie tended to be unhealthy. After the death of the girl, Sissi blamed herself too for taking the girls with her not minding that her mother in law adviced her of not doing that because the girls haven't been much well, but in the other side she considered that her 1 year old daughter was responsible too!! :-/

Oh that is sad. It's such a shame when a child that young dies, isn't it? If Sophie tended to be unhealthy, perhaps she simply just had a weak immune system then.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2013, 12:44:09 PM »
Found these in two different sites of facebook devoted to the Empress. Both images are enlarged and edited by me.

1) The horsewoman


Here for bigger!

2) Dressed in Hungarian gown, sadly it is much damaged :-(

Offline Jen_94

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part V.
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2013, 09:14:57 AM »
Oh the second one is beautiful! Such a shame about the damage though! And the painting is beautiful, do you have a year for it?