Author Topic: Richard III remains found & identified  (Read 117524 times)

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Offline Kimberly

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Richard III remains found & identified
« on: September 12, 2012, 06:39:58 AM »
This is so fascinating. If the skeleton is found to be that of Richard, I hope he gets a "proper" burial and tomb/monument, perhaps in York Minster.
Note that the skeleton has "significant spinal abnormalities" ie it shows signs of severe scoliosis which would have resulted in the right shoulder being higher than the left but did not have kyphosis ( a hunchback).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19561018
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 09:13:21 AM »
Interesting, but let's await the DNA results.

I don't know much about scoliosis - would it affect a person's ability to fight on horseback (something Richard undoubtedly did)?

It's perfectly possible to have uneven shoulders for other reasons. Rowing sweep oars (one oar per rower, as distinct from sculling, which involves one in each hand) tends to produce asymmetrical development in the upper body. My father has noticeably uneven shoulders, which he attributes to heavy use of chisels as an apprentice joiner between ages 16 and 21.

Ann

Offline Kimberly

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 01:07:38 PM »
It is 12 weeks until the DNA results are available. They are using the DNA from a descendant of Richard's sister Anne.
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 06:09:03 PM »
My best friend has scoiosis, and he has   ridden on horses, donkeys and even a camel. He has a pole  up his back but it does stop him from much.
 He is from Yorkshire and I do not  much stops them from doing anything they want. Of course, they did  not have that prdediure  in Richard IIIs time.
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Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 06:45:37 PM »
Hi,

Personally, I hope that if this body (skeleton) is actually Richard III, then he is buried in a tomb in a church or cathedral.
After all, there have been much worse kings and queens given sanctified tombs.......
Henry VII was no saint, and he's buried with honours in Westminster Abbey and even built a chapel there.
Certainly Henry VIII and Elizabeth I were not blameless in several deaths - and they're there too!!!

I don't know whether Richard III was a murderer or not, but he was a king - and of England too.....
He deserves a proper burial and grave (tomb).....

Larry

Offline Terence

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 11:04:24 PM »
Here's a link to a relative of Richard III who lives near the discovery of his body.  She is not a candidate for mitocondriadal DNA.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-Leicestershire-villager-Hilary/story-17018949-detail/story.html

I wish the reporters would stop talking about relatives as "descendants".   GRRR, simply ignorant.

This woman is not a candidate for mtDNA, but there is another source.  Descendants of his sister Anne through the complete female line.  This is being pursued and is the line to verify if this is really Richard III.

Also, the male line could be confirmed if the Beaufort Dukes of Somerset would cooperate.  Interesting possibillity.

T

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 01:11:41 AM »
The Dukes of Beaufort are descended from an illegitimate son of the penultimate Beaufort Duke of Somerset. But would it be possible to extract anything other than mDNA from the skeleton?

Ann

Offline Kimberly

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 01:50:03 PM »
More information, courtesy of the Richard III Society.
 Statement from the University of Leicester.
1 The remains appear to be that of an adult male and are in good condition.

2 This skeleton was found in the Choir - the area reported in the historical record as Richard's burial place.

3  The skeleton appears to have suffered significant peri - mortem trauma to the skull. ( see below ).

4  A barbed metal arrowhead was found between verebrae of the upper back.

5  The skeleton has spinal abnormalities. ( see below ).

The skull had a minimum of two injuries. A small penetrating wound to the top of the head and a second larger wound to the occiput ( base of the skull ). Either of these head wounds would have been fatal and there is a Welsh tradition that Richard was poleaxed. However, it is understood that the preservation of the skull is good enough for a facial reconstruction.
There is a severe scoliosis ( curvature of the spine ) resulting in the right shoulder appearing higher than the left. There is no evidence of Kyphosis ( another form of spinal curvature ).
It is hoped that mDNA will be able to be extracted from the teeth.

The skeleton was mostly complete, although the feet had been destroyed at some point in the past.
The ' shaft grave' was described as a "tight fit for the body" and there was no evidence of a coffin. It is considered probable that the body was buried in a shroud.
Apparently, further details of the scientific study are being witheld for a Channel 4 documentary.
An interesting snippet ( although, heaven knows where the source for this comes from)....." The Times states that the Queen has rejected a request for Richard's reburial in Westminster Abbey".
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 04:24:32 AM »
Exciting news today..
On Monday February 4th, Leicester University will be holding a press conference, outlining the research results so far.
At 9 pm, a documentary will be screened on Channel 4 (UK), entitled The King Under the Car Park.
The next Ricardian Bulletin will feature an analysis of the results and, excitingly, colour images of the facial reconstruction.
I will keep everybody informed on this most important news.
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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 09:00:53 AM »
Exciting news today..
On Monday February 4th, Leicester University will be holding a press conference, outlining the research results so far.
At 9 pm, a documentary will be screened on Channel 4 (UK), entitled The King Under the Car Park.
The next Ricardian Bulletin will feature an analysis of the results and, excitingly, colour images of the facial reconstruction.
I will keep everybody informed on this most important news.

    Thank you, "Kimberly," for this update!  I, for one, will be looking forward to the University's results (thus far). The technique of facial reconstruction has made many advances over the years, some quite amazing. I would especially hope to see the subsequent depictions when they are presented.                 Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 09:10:08 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Terence

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 10:18:39 PM »
Yes, thank you Kimberly.

Reading into the pr  I think it might be safe to assume they have ided the remains as Richard's.  Why else would they have proceeded w/ the facial recognition if it was some anonymous medieval chap?

Here's a funny link to a pro-Richard vid for kids, part of a series called Horrible Histories.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6JczvS1PL4

T

Offline TimM

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 04:12:18 PM »
I hope this much maligned king gets a decent burial.  He deserves that much, considering how much history has judged him based on hearsay testimony.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 07:03:52 AM »
Personally, I would go for York Minster for burial, not least because Richard himself started building a chantry chapel there before his accession.

Ann

Offline Kimberly

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 10:57:56 AM »
Absolutely with you on that one, although there are hints that it might be Leicester Cathedral because  Leicestershire was where he died.
http://www.cathedral.leicester.anglican.org/Visit%20&%20support%20us/RichardIII.html.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 10:39:55 AM by Kimberly »
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Offline CountessKate

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Re: the Remains of Richard III found ?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2013, 05:22:16 AM »
Well, actually he died on Bosworth field, which after some searching around, archaeologists have demonstrated was about 10 miles west of Leicester, near the village of Stoke Golding.  He didn't have much connection with Leicester which is presumably why he was buried there (no rallying point for anti-Tudorites).