Author Topic: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV  (Read 73508 times)

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Offline edubs31

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #90 on: May 08, 2014, 01:29:31 PM »
This could be important, as both their predecessors died in the early hours of the morning!

Ann

Ann, what two predecessors are you referring to exactly?

I could be wrong but I thought Victoria died in the early evening hours of 22 January, 1901?

While passing Victoria is obviously a milestone, I think the Queen should have her sights set on conquering all adult monarchs!

Longest Reigning Monarch
Sobhuza II, King of Swaziland - 82-years, 254-days

Longest Reigning European Monarch
Bernard VII, Lord of Lippe - 81-years, 234-days

She'll likely never catch these two, but what if we altered the definition of what it is to rule? Sobhuza was only five-months old when he inherited the throne in December, 1899, and Bernard was all of eight months when he came into power way back in 1429. Obviously these two would have needed some sort of regent to assist them until they came of age. Hard to know what age that is exactly but, for the sake of discussion, lets say one needs to be sixteen in order to act in the capacity of an adult (I believe 16 also happens to be the "qualifying" age to rule independently in several historical monarchies).

This would mean we could knock about 15-years, 7-months off the reign of Sobhuza and 15-years, 4-months from Bernard, bringing their totals to a little over 67 & 66-years respectively. But this is far exceeded by Johannes II of Liechtenstein who was already eighteen when his 70+ year reign as prince began. Christian Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach also reigned for 75-years, 253-days but did not come into power until he was ten-years old. Docking him the 6-years only brings his total up to 69-years, 272-days. Alberico I Cybo-Malaspina was in power for 69-years, 226-days. Heinrich Joseph Johann of Auersperg is at 69-years, 95-days. Franz Joseph as we're all aware reigned for nearly 68-years, all as an adult. William IV, Count of Henneberg-Schleusingen is also higher at an estimated 67-years, 243-days, and Werner, Count of Salm-Reifferscheid-Dyck is right behind at 67-years, 183-days. This tops Sobhuza by about five-months.

I've recreated the list based on that adjusted criteria. Have a look...

Longest Reigning "Adult" Monarchs

1) Johann II, Prince of Liechtenstein - 70-years, 91-days
2) Christian Augustus, Count Palatine of Sulzbach - 69-years, 272-days
3) Alberico I Cybo-Malaspina,  Marquis of Massa & Carrara / Prince of Massa - 69-years, 226-days
4) nHeinrich Joseph Johann of Auersperg - 69-years, 95-days
5) Franz Joseph I of Austria - 67-years, 355-days
6) Bhumibol Adulyadej, King of Thailand - 67-years, 333-days
7) William IV, Count of Henneberg-Schleusingen - 67-years, 243-days (est.)
8 ) Werner, Count of Salm-Reifferscheid-Dyck - 67-years, 183-days
9) Sobhuza II, King of Swaziland - 67-years, 30-days
10) Charles Frederick, Grand Duke of Baden - 66-years, 168-days
11) Bernard VII, Lord of Lippe - 66-years, 141-days
12) Vikramatji Khimojiraj, Maharaja of Porbandar - 65-years, 20-days
13) K'inich Janaab' Pakal, Rules of Palenque - 64-years, 169-days
14) Eleanor of Aquitaine - 63-years, 349-days (est.)
15) Sultan Ibrahim of Johor - 63-years, 338-days
16) Count Anton Günther von Oldenburg and Delmenhorst - 63-years, 219-days
17) Queen Victoria of the UK - 63-years, 216-days
18) Isa ibn Ali Al Khalifa, Hakim of Bahrain - 63-years, 8-days
19) Nawab Hafiz Muhammad Ibrahim Khan Salarzai of Tonk - 62-years, 185-days
20) Maharaja Bhagvatsingh Sahib,  Maharaja of Gondal - 62-years, 137-days
21) Heinrich XI, Prince Reuss of Greiz - 62-years, 102-days
21) Saqr bin Mohammad Al Qassimi, Ruler of Ras Al Khaimah - 62-years, 102-days
23) Queen Elizabeth II of the UK - 62-years, 91-days

So Her Royal Majesty the Queen will surpass Victoria in 1-year and 125-days. In exactly eight-years, should she manage to live/reign that long, she'll match Johann II's current record for longest reigning adult monarch. Problem is that she's also still chasing King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand who is the current longest reigning monarch and continues adding to his total by the day. He definitely has Johann II in his sights and would need to live & reign for only 2-more years and 124-days to set the record.

Good luck to both of them in their longevity quest!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 01:33:32 PM by edubs31 »
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Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2014, 02:14:46 PM »
Quite so, although King Bhumibol Adulyadej has been in poor health for many years and was even hospitalized continuously for four years (2009 and 2013).  Ever since he has lived in semi-seclusion at his seaside palace, appearing in public only rarely such as the service for the 64th anniversary of his coronation last week.  Elizabeth II, by contrast, enjoys remarkably robust health despite being 2 years older than the Thai king.

Offline edubs31

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2014, 02:31:13 PM »
Good point and obviously we all wish her well in her pursuit. Not going to be easy though. Healthy as she might be at the moment she has nearly a six year gap to make up between where she and King Bhumibol currently stand, and she'll need exactly eight more years of good health to set the record. Assuming of course the King doesn't set the record first.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Превед

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #93 on: May 08, 2014, 03:22:06 PM »
Another criteria is "What is a monarch?".

Before the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 only the electors were counted as immediate / sovereign, something which would reduce Bernard VII, Lord of Lippe, from a monarch to a feudal lord.

The same with Heinrich Joseph Johann of Auersperg. He was in no actual sense a monarch, but just a high-ranking Austrian nobleman, despite a titular claim to imperial immediacy due to the "free imperial lordship" over the small town of Tengen and surrounding lands (70 km²).

« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 03:49:08 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #94 on: May 08, 2014, 04:54:44 PM »
BTW if medieval vassals of the Emperor and early modern courtiers are counted as monarchs, then Native American chieftains should also be counted. After all they headed independent nations which concluded treaties with the US government on (theoretically) equal terms, just like immediate and mediatized princelings. (Though I guess that few chieftains reigned that long, considering that chiefdom was a form of elective monarchy.)
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #95 on: May 08, 2014, 05:51:10 PM »
Quote
she'll need exactly eight more years of good health to set the record

Of course, that would put her close to 100.  Mind you, her mother did make it, and just pass, that age, so it's possible.
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Offline edubs31

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #96 on: May 08, 2014, 10:25:02 PM »
Another criteria is "What is a monarch?".

Before the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 only the electors were counted as immediate / sovereign, something which would reduce Bernard VII, Lord of Lippe, from a monarch to a feudal lord.

The same with Heinrich Joseph Johann of Auersperg. He was in no actual sense a monarch, but just a high-ranking Austrian nobleman, despite a titular claim to imperial immediacy due to the "free imperial lordship" over the small town of Tengen and surrounding lands (70 km²).

BTW if medieval vassals of the Emperor and early modern courtiers are counted as monarchs, then Native American chieftains should also be counted. After all they headed independent nations which concluded treaties with the US government on (theoretically) equal terms, just like immediate and mediatized princelings. (Though I guess that few chieftains reigned that long, considering that chiefdom was a form of elective monarchy.)

Good points. We really should eliminate any number of "monarchs" from the list. But then how does one define "ruler". Elizabeth II isn't exactly endowed with much power in post-20th century parliamentary republic England. Who has more actual power? The prince or feudal lord of the 17th century, or the Queen of mid-20th and early-21st centuries?

You're right about those chieftains, but unfortunately it's rather difficult to find much in the way of historical facts regarding the length of their reigns. Further, I think it likely that none of those Native kings lived past the the minimum age of 78+ that would qualify them for this list. No way to know for certain of course.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2014, 02:36:25 AM »
Ah, I should have said that William IV, like George VI, died in the early hours of the morning.

Ann

Offline CHRISinUSA

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2014, 08:02:12 AM »
I suppose we could debate which rulers should - or shouldn't - be included in the list of "reigning monarchs" around the dates when Elizabeth II surpasses each one.  But to me, there are only really 2 big milestones for her to pass: the first when she becomes the longest reigning British monarch (passing Victoria's reign), and the next would be longest-ever reigning monarch (Johann II, Prince of Liechtenstein). 

Offline edubs31

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2014, 09:26:19 AM »
I suppose we could debate which rulers should - or shouldn't - be included in the list of "reigning monarchs" around the dates when Elizabeth II surpasses each one.  But to me, there are only really 2 big milestones for her to pass: the first when she becomes the longest reigning British monarch (passing Victoria's reign), and the next would be longest-ever reigning monarch (Johann II, Prince of Liechtenstein). 

I agree. I'll add two more to the list though...

1) To outlive King Bhumibol so she can claim the title, for at least some period of time, of longest currently reigning Monarch.
2) To pass Franz Joseph's 67-years & 355-days. He's really the only other Monarch on the list, other than Bhumibol and Victoria, to actually rule as head-of-state over a substantial empire. Not a Prince or Count, or leader of some partitioned off semi-autonomous state like we see with many of the leaders from India. And also, with all due respect, not a tiny powerless country like Swaziland or Ras al-Khaimah (within the UAE).

If you're quizzing people at random and more can name some obscure Russian Grand Duke than the actual ruler of a small country/principality then you know there is a bit of a legitimacy issue.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Превед

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2014, 09:26:40 AM »
But then how does one define "ruler". Elizabeth II isn't exactly endowed with much power in post-20th century parliamentary republic England. Who has more actual power? The prince or feudal lord of the 17th century, or the Queen of mid-20th and early-21st centuries?

Good point. Speaking of life and death, a common criterion in pre-modern Europe was that sovereignty or at least immediate imperial status was linked to the Blutgerichtsbarkeit, the ius gladii, the right to sentence subjects to the the death penalty.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #101 on: June 04, 2014, 10:50:42 AM »
Сегодня королева открыла парламент. Один из её четырех пажей упала в обморок во время её тронной речи.
=
Today the Queen opened parliament. One of her four pages fainted during her Speech from the Throne.

See http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/2189450.html

Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #102 on: June 04, 2014, 12:50:46 PM »
Сегодня королева открыла парламент. Один из её четырех пажей упала в обморок во время её тронной речи.
=
Today the Queen opened parliament. One of her four pages fainted during her Speech from the Throne.

See http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/2189450.html



Both Charles and Camilla appear to be having refreshing naps in the first image.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2014, 07:52:55 PM »
Превед : Your last post has been removed as in violation of our Forum rules.  You are not required to like any living person,  however you are to respect living persons, especially members of the Royal Family when posting in the Forum. Your last post was defamatory, inappropriate and not permitted.  I have received complaints about it.  Please refrain from defamatory and inappropriate posts about the living members of the Royal Family, most particularly HM The Queen. She is the reigning Monarch and will be accorded the appropriate levels of respect, decorum, and courtesy as such.

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 07:54:26 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline RoyalWatcher

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Re: Queen Elizabeth II Part IV
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2015, 04:49:05 PM »
Victoria’s reign lasted 23,226 days, 16 hours and 23 minutes.

Elizabeth II is expected to pass that record on Sept. 9, 2015, at around 5:30 p.m., local time in Britain.