Author Topic: Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?  (Read 40322 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2005, 11:00:58 AM »
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 I'm going to believe the best about Alexei, and every account of his good behavior.


I am going to believe a little bit of both because this is what normally is closest to the truth. Hence I will believe that he was just a regular, albeit unavoidably somewhat spoiled, boy who had potential to be kind and potential to be cruel (just like any "normal" child).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Dashkova

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2005, 11:26:07 AM »
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I am going to believe a little bit of both because this is what normally is closest to the truth. Hence I will believe that he was just a regular, albeit unavoidably somewhat spoiled, boy who had potential to be kind and potential to be cruel (just like any "normal" child).


What makes Alexei different, and not "normal" is that he was allowed to explore his potential for cruelty and suffered few to no consequences.  How should normal be defined?

rskkiya

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2005, 11:44:28 AM »
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ok Dashkova were you trying to speak French there? "DROLL" ya it meens funny but hmmm thats NOT how you spell it! its Drole!


Please AlexieLVR!
Your comments are not only incorrect, but now these remarks are getting vulgar and rather rude. Think about how you would like to be perceived here at AP and think about the way that your words represent the "Tsaravich" whom you claim to respect...
I should be very saddened if you get a reputation as a person people here avoid rather than enjoy chating with....Do you understand?
I would rather not have to play "nanny".

Rskkiya

rskkiya

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2005, 11:48:37 AM »
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I am going to believe a little bit of both because this is what normally is closest to the truth. Hence I will believe that he was just a regular, albeit unavoidably somewhat spoiled, boy who had potential to be kind and potential to be cruel (just like any "normal" child).

I think all little boys go through a "Cruel" phase-- I don't have children but my friends with offspring assure me its rather normal.
Personally, I have no interest in the Tsarevich(sp :-X) Alexie.

rskkiya

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2005, 11:54:16 AM »
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WOW Dashkova your old! your WAY older then any of my parents! :o


AlexeiLVR! that is so rude, Please say sorry to Dashkova, I have seen Pics of Dashkova, she don't look old to me.......

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2005, 12:02:05 PM »
Normal standards of behavior in here seem to be deviating. Personal sniping and attacks are to cease, please.

The word is spelled "droll".

Alexei was most likely from all accounts some of both, good and bratty. Like most children of his age.
He was generous beyond a fault to those who did something nice for him, devoted to people around him.  He would also disobey them in terrible ways, and the servants would be forced to threaten him with calling the Tsar in to make him listen. He did sometimes order soldiers to do things like wade into the sea fully dressed, just because he thought it was funny.  However, the Tsar strongly reprimanded Alexei anytime he heard of him being cruel like that.  Nicholas was the one person who Alexei listened to completely. He could also be shy around strangers.

He was, pretty much, a normal child given the extraordinary circumstances around him of his birthright and illness.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2005, 01:10:28 PM »
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I think all little boys go through a "Cruel" phase-- I don't have children but my friends with offspring assure me its rather normal.
 And little girls too.  ;)

Offline Janet_W.

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2005, 01:12:13 PM »
Thank you, FA, for blowing the whistle on today's questionable playground behavior. From what I've noticed, while typing up my own response, we need at least three time-out benches.

I see Alexei as a typical child growing up under extraordinary circumstances.

Kids (and, it appears, adults) will get away with what they can if there's no one around to reprimand or discipline them.

Also, children know that in certain situations they can "push the envelope" and they won't be disciplined . . . that parents and/or supervisors will find it uncomfortable to make an issue out of it. Or that an attempt at discipline might even exacerbate the issue, the theory being that ignoring the behavior might be best--but, as we know, this isn't usually the case.

Alexei was being watched and judged on an almost continual basis. He was the Tsarevich, he was the youngest, he was the only boy, and his health was poor. Any one of these factors would have caused a certain amount of special handling from other family members; the four of them together insured it.

Yes, there are numerous reports of his bad behavior. There are just as many reports of his good behavior. He was a work in progress, like any child, with the additional problems I've just mentioned. His parents, who already had dealt with four stair-step daughters exhibiting four very different personalities, now had a rambunctious yet exceedingly vulnerable little boy cub to deal with.  Nicholas could not always be with Alexei and the boy's earliest years were largely under the direction of his mother, who wanted him to be disciplined and a well-mannered "Baby Tsar" (as she called him) but also indulged him due to his frequent hemophilia episodes. I cannot think that any other mother--or any other parent, for that matter--would have responded differently under those circumstances.

I don't doubt that the negative reports of his behavior are true. And if you've seen the current exhibit--first in New Mexico, then New Jersey, and next in Ohio--you will note that in the brief film on display a sequence featuring Alexei marching in unison with a number of other boys shows the young Tsarevich suddenly slapping the face of the boy next to him. What the motivation for that action was we cannot know, but there it is on film, preserved all these years later.

As Alexei matured his behavior matured, and his time spent with his father at Stavka seems to have been especially good for him. But of course he was still a child, full of energy, and one of my favorite film clips from this time shows him beaning unsuspecting adults with snowballs, then laughing with guilty embarrassment when someone points out that his actions are being recorded on film!

I've worked with children displaying all sorts of behavior due to all sorts of motivations. A certain number of these antics can be written off as part and parcel of being a kid. Then there's the issue of hemophilia, and how difficult it is for any child with a handicap to come to terms with being  his or her difference. And then there's the matter of rank vs. equality. Some of you may recall that Alexei's Great Uncle Edward VII had difficulties in this area when he was a child.

Although Alexei's father once remarked--probably only half in jest!--that his son might one day be called "Alexei the Terrible," indications are that he was evolving into a compassionate and thoughtful individual. (And not nearly as disruptive as, say, the adolescent Felix Yussovpov.) Some of the children I grew up with who behaved in a bratty manner eventually left that behavior behind; others did not. I think Alexei, had he survived to adulthood, would have developed into someone with considerable empathy for others; what he did have going for him were two parents who loved each other, loved him, and wanted him to grow up to be a Tsar who was not only well-mannered but--within their own late Victorian standards--moral and upright.


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2005, 01:25:34 PM »
Thank you, Janet, for your very insiteful comments.

Offline ptitchka

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2005, 01:44:00 PM »
Thank you, Janet.  You have just written a response that I consider fair to Alexei Nikolaevich.  

If I've offended anyone here in the process of sticking up for the Tsarevich-Martyr,  I ask forgiveness.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2005, 01:47:53 PM »
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If I've offended anyone here in the process of sticking up for the Tsarevich-Martyr,  I ask forgiveness.
 Don't be silly, of course you didn't offend.

Offline Janet_W.

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2005, 01:56:50 PM »
As a sage once said, "It's the people who don't feel guilty who are probably the most guilty"!

Offline Dasha

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2005, 02:45:55 PM »
Aleksey was child who lacked structure in early years.  The fact that he punched people in the face is of course an offshoot (spelling apologies) of that.  When there are little to no limits, the restults are such.  His parents of course didn't want to restrict him as much, because they may have felt that his illness did enough of that for him already.  However, a little firmness never harmed anyone.  Punishments such as time-outs and getting priveleges taken away, and of course some lectures on propper conduct would have been suffecient to teach the boy some good manners, at least in his early years.  Also his mother needed to stop thinking that her son was the gift to the world and could do no wrong.  I have worked with children, and parents with that attitude are the most harmfull to the upbringing of well-behaved children.

I'm aware that Aleksey in his later years outgrew his willfull behavior, and perhaps seeing his father's conduct is to be credited here.  However, we will never know what he would have turned out to be in terms of a leader or a person, since he died at the age of thirteen.  

Well, that is my opinion.  I hope I made some sense here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by JaneEyre5381 »
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2005, 03:11:29 PM »
Just in case AlexeiLVR is still looking. When the Tsesarevich was alive, it was normal practice to Anglicise (put into English) Russian names: hence Tsar Nicholas (not Nikolai), Empress Catherine (not Yekaterina) etc. At that time, Alexei in English was Alexis, whether these days that is a female name or not is beside the point, as in the time we are talking about it was not. When he himself signed his name in English it was as Alexis, not Alexei. (Maybe someone can post an example of this.)
Whether one wants to write Alexei or Aleksey or any combination thereof is not really important, but one I can't stand is Alexie. No such name! A serious typo in the Romanov Prophesy, that's it.
Please, everyone try and show a little tolerance to this young girl. How much did any of you know about the Romanovs when you first became interested in them?
AlexeiLVR, please think through your comments, and re-read them before hitting the 'post' button and they will be clearer.
If you have the time there is a lot of good information on this discussion site, which will answer many of your questions - maybe read through a lot more of it and then I think you will be able to make posts that don't get under others' skins.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: What and Who is Alexei to you?
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2005, 03:14:45 PM »
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 Romanov Prophesy
  :P