Author Topic: Palaces,residencies, estates of the Habsburgs  (Read 77710 times)

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Offline Greenowl

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« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2009, 05:43:39 AM »
There is the legend of Perchta von Rosenberg, a beautiful daughter of Ulrich II. von Rosenberg, the so-called White Lady. Her father married her against her will to Jan von Lichtenstein, a powerful lord of noble rank and also a violent and boorish man.

 Her marriage was hell on earth, but eventually her husband died and she happily returned to her parental castle and became the good spirit of the castle and helped anyone who had problems. However, the pain she had experienced left its mark upon her and no one ever saw her smile again. Sad, slender, prematurely aged, with curly golden hair covered by a white veil, she walked through the chambers and courtyards of the castle and watched over her brother's estates until her death. After her death she continued to appear in the Rosenberg castles and was known as “The White Lady”. She wore a simple white dress with keys around her waist and was seen floating through the corridors and chambers. A smile on her face was a sign of good tidings whereas black gloves in her hands and a solemn countenance foreshadowed impending disaster or death. Then for some reason the White Lady started to appear when death came to the Habsburgs. She was seen for the first time when Karl V died at Yuste. Every time a Habsburg is about to die she was said to have appeared. She was seen in the Hofburg when the Duke of Reichstadt, son of Napoleon and Marie Louise, Archduchess of Austria, died and was reputed to give a peaceful death to those who saw her.

The White Lady was supposed to have been seen near Mayerling. Apparently Crown Prince Rudolf had killed a white deer some days earlier and the White Lady appeared over the hunting lodge, white and pale as a mirage.

The book "Mayerling: The facts behind the legend" (London, 1971) by the late Fritz Judtmann has a whole chapter devoted to “paranormal” (I wonder if that is the best choice of word??) events surrounding Mayerling. I think he mentions the white deer. However, the part of the chapter that I found most interesting was the so-called “Paramatta mystery”, which strangely enough would sort of “fit in” with the claims made in the Erich Feigl book "Kaiserin Zita. Kronzeugin eines Jahrhunderts". Amalthea, Wien 1989, ISBN 3-85002-277-3.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

Offline Madame-Sisi

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« Reply #91 on: February 07, 2009, 05:46:11 AM »
cool...u got more of this things?


Offline Greenowl

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« Reply #92 on: February 07, 2009, 06:07:43 AM »
No, I am not aware of any other legends associated with ghosts in the imperial palaces, apart from what I read many years ago in the chapter devoted to the “paranormal” in Fritz Judtmann's book "Mayerling: The facts behind the legend" (London, 1971).

Offline Madame-Sisi

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« Reply #93 on: February 07, 2009, 08:25:40 AM »
Well i will see it in the book "Die habsburger und das übersinnliche"...when there are some interesting stories i will place it here..

Oyeah Empress Elisabeth also believed in the spiritual world..She have seen the ghost of Ludwig..
this story is also in the diary of her daughter Marie Valerie.. and in the book of her cousin gräfin Marie Larisch.

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In Elisabeths diary ( not found to this day but quoted by Marie Larisch), Elisabeth explained her tendencies.
I do not belong to those whose spiritual senses are closed off.
And that is why I hear, or, rather,feel the thoughts and the will concerning me of my spirit,
That is why I see blonde Else of the Rhine and Bubi( her nephew Taxis, who died young), once I also saw Max(brother-in-law), but he did not have the strenght to tell me what he clearly wished to tell me.... These images come to me in a waking state, just as a memory arouses "phantoms" while we sleep.
But what I see in the waking state are not phantoms, not hallucinations, as some people, who lack understanding, claim, and so give a meaningless word instead of a logical explanation....It gives me grat satisfaction and deep reassurance in many an hour that I can make a connection with spirits from beyond. But with very few exceptions, people do not understand, they declare to be nonsense.
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Elisabeth told her daughter Marie-Valerie(and she wrote it in her diary) and to Marie Larisch(that also wrote it down) about the "apparitions" of Ludwig II. Once she said, she heard a noise like the gurgling of water while she lay in bed.

Gradually this soft trickle filled the whole room, and I experienced the entire plight of drowning. I wheezed and choked and struggled for air, then the horror disappeared, with my last strenght I sat up in bed and could breathe freely again. The moon had risen, and its glow turned the room bright as day.
Then I saw the door slowly opening, and Ludwig entered.
His clothing was soaked with water, which ran down and formed small puddles on the parquet floor.
His damp hair was sticking to his white face, but it was Ludwig, looking just as he did in life.

Then Elisabeth continued, a conversation with Ludwig's spirit. And  he spoke of a woman who was burning: "I know that it is a woman who loved me, and until her destiny is fulfilled, I shall never be free. But afterward you will meet us, and the three of us will be happy together in paradise."

Elisabeth told Marie Larisch:
"But while I spoke, the apparition vanished; once again I heard the dripping of unseen water and the gurgle of the lake against the shore. I was seized with horror, for I felt the nearness of the shades from that other world who were holding out their ghostly arms, seeking the comfort of the living."


Offline Imperial_Grounds

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« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2009, 10:11:46 AM »
The event spoken of above is mentoined in a dutch roman on Sisi's life. Ludwig came to her, he told her someone they both held dear would die by fire and then she would soon join them. The book is called "Sisi's Winterlied"(Sisi's Wintersong), by Lucas Zandberg. Also I remember Eric Lowe mentioning that the death of Sisi, Sophie, and - if I recall  correctly - Ludwig. He said it was pronounced by a gypsy or something that Ludwig II would die by water, Sophie by fire and Sisi by steel.

And remember Sisi mentoining, only short before her death, that she hoped her spirit to leave her body by a hole in her heart. So that is what happens,
Learn To Live With My Darker Side

Offline Madame-Sisi

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« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2009, 11:08:20 AM »
The event spoken of above is mentoined in a dutch roman on Sisi's life. Ludwig came to her, he told her someone they both held dear would die by fire and then she would soon join them. The book is called "Sisi's Winterlied"(Sisi's Wintersong), by Lucas Zandberg. Also I remember Eric Lowe mentioning that the death of Sisi, Sophie, and - if I recall  correctly - Ludwig. He said it was pronounced by a gypsy or something that Ludwig II would die by water, Sophie by fire and Sisi by steel.

And remember Sisi mentoining, only short before her death, that she hoped her spirit to leave her body by a hole in her heart. So that is what happens,

I know im dutch to so i have read that book :)
but i read it in Brigitte hamann's the reluctant empress and the diary of marie valeries daughter..
Marie larisch also said in her book that ludwig came to her to tell her the "future" but not very clear..

and that of a gypsy pronouncing it..i've read that also somewhere..dont know exactly where :S


Offline Olga Maria

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« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2009, 03:51:29 PM »
Interesting and scary stories! Thanks to all who posted!

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Offline Greenowl

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« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2009, 06:27:46 PM »
Yes, Empress Elisabeth was a great believer in the supernatural, and not only did she have visitations from her cousin Ludwig II, but also from her hero Heinrich Heine, who she claimed appeared to her in dreams and dictated her poetry to her. The Empress was quite sincere in her belief, but it can't have been Heine, as I cannot imagine that his poetic talent could have deteriorated so much after a few decades on "the other side"....or maybe the Empress could not hear him properly (I'm joking of course)!!

Offline Olga Maria

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« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2009, 02:07:58 AM »
Well, did she tell someone about those experiences?

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Offline Greenowl

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« Reply #99 on: February 12, 2009, 03:34:02 AM »
Oh yes, she made no secret of it to her friends and to her daughter Marie-Valerie. Brigitte Hamann relates Marie-Valerie's description (as told to her by her mother) of one of the nocturnal visits of "The Master" (Heinrich Heine) on page 452 of her book "Elisabeth, Kaiserin wider Willen" (I think "The Reluctant Empress" is the title of the English translation). The description comes from Marie-Valerie's diary entry of  26.08.1889 with the note "three years ago", so that particular "vision" must have taken place in 1886

Offline Olga Maria

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« Reply #100 on: February 12, 2009, 10:45:53 PM »
Did they believe her? I'm sure they did. ( She's no liar) I'm sure those people she confided with those got scared, too.

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Offline Greenowl

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« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2009, 05:16:01 AM »
They believed that she was not trying to fool them and that she was telling the truth as she saw it. However, I have no idea whether they really believed that she had had such experiences. I think that Marie-Valerie was skeptical, but took that attitude that if it made her mother feel happy (which it obviously did), then it was a good thing.

I personally don't believe that Elisabeth "saw" anything....she only dreamed or imagined that she did (although of course to her it was true). As I said (half joking) in a previous post, if Heinrich Heine really dictated poems to Elisabeth, then like him, she would rank among the greatest poets who ever wrote in the German language, but obviously this is not the case and while Elisabeth tried hard to copy "the master", her attempts are just a pale shadow of Heine's work. I wonder which of Heine's poems/books she liked best? Does anyone know? An amusing anecdote (but true) is that on one occasion a famous actor was engaged for a poetry reading at which members of the Imperial family were present. Among the poems was a work by Heine. The actor only recited half of it, as the other half was considered "unsuitable" for imperial ears (poor Heine was always censored for one reason or another). When the actor finished Elisabeth stood up and demanded the rest of the poem....and either forced the actor to recite it or recited it herself. She was a real Heine expert and often consulted on matters pertaining to his work.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

Offline Olga Maria

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« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2009, 10:36:25 AM »
What a good piece of information, GreenOwl! And the rest, I can say, didn't believe her so far.

Yes. I wonder how long her memory could keep what Heine dictated to her! How did she jot down all that Heine said while sleeping, hm?
Something interesting!

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Offline Greenowl

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« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2009, 11:03:05 AM »
Not exactly, Ingrid Alexie! She claimed that Heine "moved the pen" as she wrote her poetry and told her what to say as she went along! That was what she believed anyway. But she also reported that he came to her in the night and in dreams....some of her descriptions of these "visits" are almost erotic in character. In "real life" she visited Heine's sister in Hamburg and also consulted with one of his nephews when choosing a statue of Heine for her "Achilleion" in Corfu. Seemingly Baron Nopcsa was a bit shocked that the statue depicted Heine dressed casually in a shirt(or night shirt) and commented on it, to which Countess Festetics replied "at least it is better that Greek God dress (griechischer Goettertoilette) i.e. naked"

Offline Joanna

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« Reply #104 on: March 30, 2009, 02:13:08 PM »
A brief history of Blauer Hof, Laxenburg and floorplan with locations of apartments of Franz Josef, Elizabeth, Karl, etc:

http://www.iiasa.ac.at/Admin/INF/docs/pdf_files/BriefHistory.pdf

Joanna