Author Topic: Possible Marriage Candidates  (Read 33712 times)

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Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2013, 01:40:05 PM »
Marriage talks for Anastasia took place!

"...'None of my daughters shall marry German princes', she (Alix) said on one occasion. It was suggested that Anastasie's future home might be England, and the Empress welcomed the idea. An English marriage would have been very near her heart."
(from Lili Dehn's "The Real Tsaritsa")

It cannot be figured whether that topic had been discussed by the family (only) or by ministers.
(It's also possible there  had been such talks for Maria.)

As to Alexandra's attitudes towards her daughters not marrrying German princes: It should be remembered that Alexandra herself was German born, that is Hessian, one of the German states prior to the unification of Germany under Prussian dominance in 1871. She lived in Hesse til her marriage in 1894 to Nicholas. She loved her home state Hesse-Darmstadt  all her life and had fond feelings towards much of Germany. But the exception was Prussia. Prussia had defeated her native land in 1866 in the Franco-Prussian War. Though this was before she was born, she was very aware of how her mother and father , Princess Alice and Grand Duke Ludwig, had suffered along with their subjects, fellow Hessians. Not all German states were the same , and from that point forward, possibly from earlier, Alexandra was antipathetic to Prussia and its militarism. When war came with Germany in 1914, any thoughts of  marriage of any of her daughters to German princes were ended, at least for the foreseeable future. I don't know what Alexandra's attitudes were towards other specific principalities , but it's unlikely they were very positive insofar as they might be asociated with Prussia.

Moreover, her mother-in-law, Dowager Empress Marie,as a former Danish princess, also felt similarlly. Possibly even more anti-Prussian, if not entirely anti_German  regarding its constituent states and pricipalities.
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Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2013, 06:01:58 PM »
And even more so, Alix was closer to her English relatives than she was with her German ones, wasn't she?
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Offline rosieposie

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2013, 05:23:05 AM »
Yes,  Alix was close to her English relatives because she was raised during a period in England with Queen Victoria after the death of both her father and mother.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2013, 07:31:39 AM »
Rodney

I think you make an important point in distinguishing between Prussia and Germany. In any case, Alexandra  wasn't all that fond of Wilhelm,  so that would probably rule out any of his sons as marriage candidates (in any case three of them were married well before 1914, Oskar and Adalbert both married as the war broke out, leaving only Joachim). Alexandra seems to have got on well enough with Heinrich of Prussia (I know of nothing to suggest any tensions, and he was someone whom everyone seems to have liked). However, his sons were the Grand Duchesses first cousins, which would rule them out.

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Offline Превед

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2013, 09:41:22 AM »
It's ironic that the only two possibly eligible dynasties would be those claiming a Slavic origin and arch-reactionary to boot:

The only reigning dynasty in the German Empire overtly critical of Prussian hegemony being petty Reuß Senior Line (untill the death of Heinrich "The Naughty" XXII in 1902), which probably was to insignificant to offer a match for a Russian Emperor's daughter - and both Mecklenburgs. After all, untill 1904 the reigning Grand Duchess of Mecklenburg-Strelitz was a born British Princess and in 1898 NII's cousin, the second in line heir, married a Princess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

LOL, imagine if Anastasia Nikolayevna had married Prince Olav of Norway! So impossible on many levels....
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:50:50 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2013, 11:25:41 AM »
Not to mention that Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna Sr was a Schwerin Duchess. (She was also connected to the Reuss line as her mother was a Princess of Reuss)

I don't see why Anastasia couldn't have married Olav. There was a pre-requisite that she change her religion to be Queen. Most Grand Duchesses married outside of the country---Xenia being a rare exception. If she didn't want to marry outside of Russia she was basically left with few options. There were some Grand Dukes around who weren't first cousins or she could've gone the Irina/Tatiana route and married an acceptable Russian Prince. The only Slavic options outside of Russia were Serbia, Greece (closely related to the Romanovs but not first-cousin close), Romania and Montenegro. Between the first cousin prohibition, the equal marriage question and the lack of Slavic options, most Grand Duchesses had to look to foreign, non-Slavic countries. I think Olav maybe would've been an interesting match for her--even if she was an 'older woman'. :)

Of the Greeks, there was the future George II (10 years older than her and usually linked to one of her older sisters), the future Alexander I and the future Paul I (all 3 in the reigning line). Considering that George I & Olga had so many sons, there weren't many Greek princes in that next generation--Constantine had the 3 above-mentioned but George's son wasn't age-eligible for the Grand Duchesses, Nicholas (himself married to a Russian Grand Duchess) only had daughters and Andrew's only son wasn't born until 1922 (and made a pretty good match himself). Their daughters married Grand Dukes but only Alexandra produced a son--Dmitri.

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Offline Превед

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2013, 04:48:21 PM »
and in 1898 NII's cousin, the second in line heir, married a Princess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.
Uff da, that was meant to be NII's Danish cousin (Christian X)...

Not to mention that Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna Sr was a Schwerin Duchess. (She was also connected to the Reuss line as her mother was a Princess of Reuss)
Speaking of Slavic connections, it's interesting that Maria Pavlovna's grandfather Prince Heinrich LXIII. Reuß zu Köstritz owned the Saxon estates Leichnam / Lichań and Klix / Klukš, two villages wich both were Sorbian-speaking in the 19th century. (Sorbian is still spoken in the region today, but not in those two villages.)

I don't see why Anastasia couldn't have married Olav. There was a pre-requisite that she change her religion to be Queen.

Yes, but I do think such a marriage would have been difficult if not impossible in reality. Before 1914, when the parties anyway were too young, the objection would not so much have been the fear of Russian expansion (always a threat in Norway's northernmost province, Finnmark, though untill WW2 Finnish expansion and colonisation was more feared), but rather fear of reactionary Russian political influence. (The Russian Emperor being viewed as a tyrant, not at least because of his policy in Finland.) During WW1 a Russian marriage would have added an interesting twist to the conflict between pro-British King Haakon VII and his slightly pro-German government in officially neutral Norway. Of course, after 1917 / 1918 a Romanov queen would have caused political tension and insurmountable diplomatic difficulties. (Well, perhaps not. If Queen Maud could be ill or absent from most state functions, so could a Romanov first lady.) Even though after the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, when Russia ceded the Pechenga Corridor (by the Barents Sea) to Finland, Norway and Russia did not share a border anymore. (Not untill WW2).

BTW the Soviet ambassador to Norway 1923-1930, Alexandra Kollontai, was the world's first accredited female ambassador. Perhaps a good match for tomboy Anastasia Nikolayevna!
Perhaps Queen Maud would have had sentimental reasons to support such a marriage, considering that she had been in love with Grand Duke George Alexandrovich in her youth.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:01:08 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline edubs31

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2013, 05:08:19 PM »
Quote
BTW the Soviet ambassador to Norway 1923-1930, Alexandra Kollontai, was the world's first accredited female ambassador. Perhaps a good match for tomboy Anastasia Nikolayevna!

Your otherwise interesting post lost me here. Care to explain?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Превед

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2013, 05:11:21 PM »
Quote
BTW the Soviet ambassador to Norway 1923-1930, Alexandra Kollontai, was the world's first accredited female ambassador. Perhaps a good match for tomboy Anastasia Nikolayevna!

Your otherwise interesting post lost me here. Care to explain?

LOL, yes. If Anastasia Nikolayevna were Crown Princess or Queen of Norway she would be faced with Alexandra Kollontai (a very interesting woman!) as Soviet ambassador to Norway. Considering that Kollontai was Soviet ambassador to Sweden 1930–1945 she may have had dealings with Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna the Younger.

Even though after the 1920 Treaty of Tartu, when Russia ceded the Pechenga Corridor (by the Barents Sea) to Finland, Norway and Russia did not share a border anymore. (Not untill WW2).

Pechenga / Petsamo is BTW the port where Crown Princess Märtha and her children boarded USS American Legion, exchanging their Swedish exile, which became impossible when Gustaf V suggested the collaborist idea to put the infant Prince Harald as a German puppet king on the Norwegian throne, for the US, on President Roosevelt's invitation. Tor Bomann-Larsen's last volume of his Haakon & Maud biography stresses how resolutely Crown Princess Märtha resisted this idea, even though she was far away from her husband and father-in-law, surrounded by her Swedish family, who put pressure on her.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:24:05 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2013, 05:47:43 PM »
Speaking of "Greater Finland" and what-if revisionism: Imagine if Olga Nikolayevna had married Wolfgang of Hesse-Cassel (both born in 1896), son and Finnish heir of the designated king Fredrik Kaarle I and they had become crown prince and princess of Finland! I can imagine the intellectual Olga striking up an interesting relationship with famous Russo-Finland Swedish poetess Edith Södergran (whose poetry features an ideal world straight out of Virolahti Bay), even though the poor Nietzsche fan had written in her St. Petersburg school days that "she would not give up the struggle untill the blood of the Romanovs flowed in the streets". When it eventually did, her family lost their considerable fortune, which was invested in Ukrainian railways stocks.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 06:11:54 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline edubs31

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2013, 10:09:13 PM »
even though the poor Nietzsche fan had written in her St. Petersburg school days that "she would not give up the struggle untill the blood of the Romanovs flowed in the streets". When it eventually did, her family lost their considerable fortune, which was invested in Ukrainian railways stocks.

Funny how that works...idealistic? Just wait a while.

Thanks for clearing up the Anastasia meets Kollantai descrepancy. I know a good deal about Alexandra having written about her quite a bit recently.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2013, 11:04:02 PM »
Some might call that karma, hehe
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Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2013, 01:40:01 AM »
Perhaps Queen Maud would have had sentimental reasons to support such a marriage, considering that she had been in love with Grand Duke George Alexandrovich in her youth.

It also could be noted that Maud is cousin to both Nicholas & Alexandra : )



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Offline miki_nastya

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2014, 03:18:13 PM »
Are there any pictures of Anastasia with Igor?
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Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: Possible Marriage Candidates
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2014, 04:39:21 PM »
What was the political relations with Bulgaria? Tsar Boris III was born in 1894 and only 7 years older. Or even the younger brother Prince Kiril, born in 1895. Would they have been considered possible?

Then there are as grandduchessella suggested Queen Olga's grandchildren from Constantine, Alexander (b. 1893) and Paul (b. 1901, six months younger then Anastasia). I'm sure all parties involved would have loved a possible match. I feel like marriage to one of the Greeks, including the eldest George, would have been perfect for the girls. They shared the same religion and then there's the really good family history.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 04:45:10 PM by Maria Sisi »