Author Topic: Common misconceptions?  (Read 9228 times)

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Offline Bryndis

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Common misconceptions?
« on: February 06, 2014, 08:35:10 PM »
Hi there!

I'm curious....

Do you know of any common misconceptions about the Romanovs (and their world). Facts made from gossip. Or just made up things that you keep seeing?

For example: I've read Rasputin was nicknamed Rasputin because of his debauched lifestyle. But I've also read that Rasputin was just his name.
                    And it sometimes seems like everyone was secretly gay back then (joke!)

Anyone? :/
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 08:37:05 PM by Bryndis »

Offline edubs31

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 07:46:57 AM »
Quote
Do you know of any common misconceptions about the Romanovs (and their world). Facts made from gossip. Or just made up things that you keep seeing?

How about the common misconception that prevailed for decades that one or more of the family members had survived? :-)

Quote
And it sometimes seems like everyone was secretly gay back then (joke!)

Scratches his head...
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Bryndis

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 09:26:47 AM »
Well I was reading 'The Lost World of Nicholas and Alexandra' and there it says George (Nicky's brother) and  George of Greece were both gay (no rumours just 'common knowledge'.
I've never heard that before.
It also says the same thing about Ernie and Felix, but I've heard that a lot.

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2014, 03:06:35 PM »
Rasputin's family name was always Rasputin.

Rasputin never had sexual relations with Alexandra Feodorovna.  Rasputin never molested the Grand Duchesses.  Rasputin was not a "frequent" visitor to the Alexander Palace. He actually was at the Palace itself no more than five or six times, over the course of years.  Nicholas wasn't under any spell or control of Rasputin.

There is strong evidence that Ernst Ludwig may have had gay lovers. Felix was at least a cross dresser and was probably bi-sexual.

There were no orders of pogroms against Jews by Nicholas II. In fact, Nicholas forbade them, but it was local level officials who ordered and carried out the Pogroms.  Nicholas was not particularly anti-Semitic, as Jews were received by him and he became angry when the very anti Semitic Governor of Yalta forbade the Jewish members of Nicholas' personal orchestra from entry to the city.  Nicholas ridiculed him for that...




Offline edubs31

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2014, 04:46:44 PM »
Far as homosexuality is concerned I don't think it was likely any more prevalent in late-imperial Russian society than it is today. You wouldn't judge the overall sexual orientation of American society by looking at the number of homosexuals & bisexuals in Hollywood or on Broadway would you? So why then would Russian society be judged by certain more high profile members of its aristocracy?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Bryndis

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 05:12:30 PM »
I hope you didn't misunderstand me.
I'm not saying everyone was gay! haha!
I'm just curious why I am finding out that this person and that person is gay when I read this book and not any other.
Who decided that Rasputin was a nickname and why?
Are they assumptions or facts :

Offline Превед

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 06:23:22 PM »
Far as homosexuality is concerned I don't think it was likely any more prevalent in late-imperial Russian society than it is today.

When you have political leaders who inherit their positions instead of getting elected or appointed you probably end up with a larger spectrum of individuals. Monarchies certainly give power (and I'm not thinking of just the monarch himself, but all junior princes and aristocrats too) to people who are not very likely as political leaders in democracies. From people unfit to rule like NII and AF to gays and, if things had run their course, to invalids like Alexei.

In Imperial Russia, the caste you were born into was more important than the gender you had sex with. Rather opposite of modern American politics.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 06:47:41 PM by Превед »
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Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2014, 02:45:35 PM »
Well I was reading 'The Lost World of Nicholas and Alexandra' and there it says George (Nicky's brother) and  George of Greece were both gay (no rumours just 'common knowledge'.
I've never heard that before.
It also says the same thing about Ernie and Felix, but I've heard that a lot.

I don't know about George Alexandrovich, Nicholas' brother, but if it was 'common knowledge" (commonly known to whom?)that George of Greece was gay and Felix and Ernie were biserxual, and they in fact were such, how is that a common misconception? Such characterizations would seem thus to be accurate conceptions.
Rodney G.

Offline Bryndis

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 08:55:22 PM »
Well maybe common knowledge is a bad term but at least someone knew that Ernie had male lovers (according to the book)
But when it comes to George Alexandrovich there is nothing more said to back it up (except for rumours that they went to male brothels during the trip to Asia.)
So when I was reading the book I was wondering if I had missed something "in my studies of the Romanovs" because I've never heard that mentioned in other books that I've read before even though those books talk about poor Georgie.

I also believed for a while that Rasputin was a nickname because there is a word in Russian close to Rasputin that means debauched or similar....but then again he had a daughter called Maria Raputina so I reckoned his name was actually  Rasputin! So....the believe it was his nickname might be a common misconception...

Anyway, this post wasn't supposed to be about "no one knows' details. 
Maybe more about "facts" from old popular books that have been debunked.

I'm not making any sense!!!!

Offline Sanochka

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 12:52:48 PM »
I think one of the greatest myths about Romanovs concerns the disposition of their bodies after their execution in Ekaterinburg.  Thanks to Sokolov, many believed that all of the bodies had been disposed of at the Ganin mine pit.  Of course, that myth was put to rest once and for all with the discovery of the actual grave sites.

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2014, 03:24:24 PM »
I think one of the greatest myths about Romanovs concerns the disposition of their bodies after their execution in Ekaterinburg.  Thanks to Sokolov, many believed that all of the bodies had been disposed of at the Ganin mine pit.  Of course, that myth was put to rest once and for all with the discovery of the actual grave sites.

Well, the bodies wereinitially thrown in the mine at Ganina Yama. His failure to actually find them there did lead to rumors and possible survivor stories (myths of survival?), but I think subsequent references to how and where the Bolsheviks disposed of the eleven bodies use dumping in a mine pit as a sort of shorthand for getting rid of them, not being overly concerned with whether it was in a mine pit  or in hastily dug graves.
Rodney G.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 04:14:24 AM »
I'm not sure that Sokolov's investigation was directly linked to the survivor myths. After all, he concluded correctly that the whole family were ded.

Ann

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 04:05:29 PM »
I'm not sure that Sokolov's investigation was directly linked to the survivor myths. After all, he concluded correctly that the whole family were ded.

Ann

Well yes, true. And it certainly wasn't his intent to encourage survivor stories. And he was too rational to believe anyone had escaped the Ipatiev House basement. It's just that imagining that someone had survived was not an impossible or  irrational conclusion from the absence of bodies, especially since Sokolov 's investigation was otherwise the most thorough to that date and he had considerable credibility.
Rodney G.

Offline AngelAnastasia

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 10:07:16 PM »
That Nicholas II was evil. It could not be farther from the truth - on the contrary, his problem, perhaps, was that he was "too good" for his own good, i.e. he was so gentle that he really didn't want to stand up for himself.
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Offline abbica

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Re: Common misconceptions?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2015, 02:02:20 PM »
For me the biggest misconception was how involved Nicholas and Alexandra where in their childrens care. E.g. I never knew Alexandra breast fed.