Author Topic: The Non-Hetero Royals  (Read 113142 times)

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Offline CountessKate

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #270 on: April 10, 2007, 07:29:52 AM »
I think the tortured souls stuff is rather a cliche, and can't see that there's much evidence to support it.  KR felt deeply unhappy about his attraction to men, and wrote about it very honestly in his diaries, but his home life and writing he was confident and at ease.  Tchaikovsky had extremely messy personal relationships, and was probably gay, but there's no evidence that he was tortured by this on a continuing basis, though he naturally had many emotional ups and downs (though these seem as much as anything to be based on his relationships with women, not men).  But his musical life was very professional and productive and if, as has been suggested, he used his emotional life as a basis for his art, it certainly doesn't seem the result of a soul in continual turmoil.  Neither man really comes across as a tortured soul - they were just people who were uncomfortable with sexuality which didn't fit with the conventions of the day.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #271 on: April 11, 2007, 07:44:18 PM »
True...However one has to remember that KR was a devout Christian and his going to bath houses was more than just "uncomfortable" as any gay man living a double life would be. In some places people still commit suicides when they found out that they are gay. In 19th Century that was more than just an inconvience it was against the law. I believe both have turmioil in their lives due to that. Also the conductor's sad later life and eventual suicide was due to a tortured soul (more him than KR, who had family and Marvra to ground him). Yet both are talented and creative in their works. Another similar one like KR is Ernst of Hesse.  ???

Offline CountessKate

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #272 on: April 12, 2007, 01:36:46 PM »
You're absolutely right that one shouldn't downplay the genuine misery that KR's sexuality caused him, and the evidence of his diaries is very clear on this point.  I think however that the evidence in Tchaikovsky's case is not nearly so clear-cut.  For example, it is by no means established that he committed suicide, in fact most biographers cite cholera as more likely.  I suppose I just dislike the lumping together of KR and Tchaikovsky - because they were gay, because they were artists, because they knew each other - under a single romantic stereotype of a 'tortured soul'.  They were very different, very complex personalities and had very different lives and I think they should be accorded the individual respect and consideration they deserve - not just wrapped up together in an artificial way because of their sexuality. 

Offline CountessKate

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #273 on: April 12, 2007, 01:44:10 PM »
Quote
Yes Gibbes was gay, I think this is a well known fact!

Yes, I remember reading somewhere that Gibbes was gay, but like so many of these "well know facts" can't recall what evidence there was for this.  Was it really proven, or was it a case of the usual suspicion of lifelong batchelors?

Offline hikaru

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #274 on: April 13, 2007, 02:45:35 AM »
Father of KR - GD Konstantin Nikolaevitch- was the president of Russian Musical Society since 1893. And he constantly supported Chaykowsky.
Thank to Konstantin Nikolaevitch first operas/symponies of Chaikovsky were played on the stage.
Even if KR and Chaikovsky were not a lovers, they were a very good friends. Their letters to each others are very long and warm.

Offline hikaru

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #275 on: April 14, 2007, 02:17:32 PM »
By the way, I have found some extracts from the Diaries of KR issued by Mr. Mironenko, head of GARF
www. az.ru/articles/biographies/romanov1.html

Offline Belochka

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #276 on: April 14, 2007, 08:26:41 PM »
By the way, I have found some extracts from the Diaries of KR issued by Mr. Mironenko, head of GARF
www. az.ru/articles/biographies/romanov1.html

Hi Hikaru,

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Offline hikaru

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #277 on: April 14, 2007, 10:03:41 PM »
Yes, definetely, sorry
www. az.gay.ru/articles/biographies/romanov1.html

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #278 on: April 16, 2007, 12:34:12 PM »
Better luck next time. ;)

Offline miller99

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #279 on: April 21, 2007, 04:47:15 PM »

Offline miller99

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #280 on: April 21, 2007, 05:03:37 PM »
Is not true say that GD K.K was a gay. He was a bisexual man.

GD Nikolai Mihhailovich  was a bisexual too. Queen Victoria of Sweden was a lover of GD Nikolai Mihhailovich.

GD Dmitri Pavlovich was a bisexual. Berbatova told about GD Dmitri Pavlovich that his lover was not only Prince Felix Jussupov, but  GD Nikolai Mihhailovich too.

GD Sergei Aleksandovich was maybe a bisexual, his homosexual affairs was uncertain.

Look!
GD Nikolai Mihhailovich was a bisexual because his ancestor King of Sweden Gustav III was a bisexual.

GD Sergei Aleksandovich was a bisexual because of his Hessen relativs. Ernst of Hessen was a bisexual.


And very interesting:

GD Konstantin Konstantinovich was a granduncle of GD Dmitri Pavlovich. Maybe reason of homosexuality of GD Konstantin Konstantinovich and GD Dmitri Pavlovich was Sax-Altenburg ancestor.
 

Offline miller99

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #281 on: April 21, 2007, 05:09:00 PM »
GD Konstantin Konstaninovich wrote that his lovers were common russian men (bath-house attendant, bath-house man, cottager, cottar, cotter).

Offline miller99

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #283 on: April 22, 2007, 01:27:43 PM »
You mean rough trade...common men ?  ???

Offline hikaru

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Re: The Non-Hetero Royals
« Reply #284 on: April 23, 2007, 12:29:45 AM »
from russian banya, especially