Author Topic: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)  (Read 48242 times)

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Offline wakas

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2014, 09:08:15 PM »
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The autopsy photos show without doubt that Rasputin's brain was blown out of his head by a close range gun shot.  He was NOT DROWNED nor Poisoned.  THOSE are untrue myths.
Thank you for your answer. This is very interesting.
Is Felix Yusupov's testimony about the murder reliable or is it exaggerated?

Read Margarita Nelipa's book, The Murder of Grigorii Rasputin. Ms Nelipa is a member of these forums. : )
I've never read this book. What does it say ?
After death, there is not death, but life.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2014, 09:35:00 PM »
Yussupov's account of events is for the most part fiction.

Offline historyfan

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2014, 10:44:55 PM »
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Read Margarita Nelipa's book, The Murder of Grigorii Rasputin. Ms Nelipa is a member of these forums. : )
I've never read this book. What does it say ?

Here's the link to the thread on the book, on this forum:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=10647.0

Offline wakas

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2014, 11:59:46 PM »
Thank you both!
After death, there is not death, but life.

Offline John Walker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2014, 03:33:52 PM »
I've come into this interesting thread late.  Sorry!  Very interesting replies and very useful to the researcher - especially the reference suggestions and reading recommendations of Forum Admin ....... except the statement that Rasputin was long dead in the back courtyard from an execution style shot to the back of the head.  This with respect is inconceivable.  The police report and photos showed clearly that there was blood in the front yard and on the doorstep leading into the staircase down to the cellar.  That blood was shown to be human.  Rasputin was shot twice at close range from slightly behind as the autopsy showed.  His body was left, as the conspirators said, for dead.  He revived, was seen making his way up the stairs by Purishkevich who followed him out into the yard and fired wildly.  Purishkevich missed but the weakened Rasputin simply expired. (There were no bullet wounds from long range to substantiate any claim that he had been shot in flight by Purishkevich although Purishkevich assumed that because Rasputin fell down that he must have shot him.) His body was dragged back into the palace, the door slammed shut and a fatal execution administered to the forehead by...... well we have been here before haven't we! For Rasputin to have escaped out into the back yard and been shot there, would mean his climbing the full staircase, somehow evading the notice of at least four persons in the room above, which he would have needed to pass through, and escaping the notice of any servants, making his way through the whole Palace to the back door, which would logically would have been locked anyway.  The autopsy showed the execution shot was to the forehead - single clear entry wound - and not from the back.  The reports stated the medical staff were sickened by the sight of the injury without giving details.  This supports the view that the execution bullet was unjacketed and after penetrating the forehead bone literally blew out the back of the head.  As Forum Admin correctly states there was no poison in Rasputin's stomach.  Nor was there water in the lungs to support any suggestion of drowning
   

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2014, 09:25:03 AM »
All servants had been dismissed for the evening by Felix prior to Rasputin arriving, intentionally.  Please read Richard Cullen's excellent forensic analysis of the evening and the body, and you will discover that the story told by Purishkyevich and Yussupov is utter and complete fiction and any detail found there must be dismissed as "fact".  Mr. Cullen is a very senior British Forensic police investigator and brings a level of expertise to this discussion far beyond "speculation".




Offline John Walker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2014, 11:22:12 AM »
Then how do you account for the police scene of crime documents which state clearly by forensic doctor Zavadsky (I am in Petersburg at the moment without my reference material and writing from memory I may have the name wrong) that blood was found in the front yard?  How do you explain the photographs of blood on the doorstep?  That blood, by the same forensic report was proved to be human?  Whose was it if it wasn't Rasputin's?  Do you contend two people were murdered in the palace that night?
How do you suggest Rasputin got from the cellar to the back yard, where you contend he was shot? 
How do you actually know who was and who was not in the Palace that night?  That question, with arrival and departure times, has always been and remains one of the biggest mysteries.
How do you explain the existence of a police photograph showing the entry point of the execution shot in the centre of Rasputin's forehead, if, as you claim, he was shot in the back of the head? 
Richard Cullen's is forensically by far the best book on the subject.  I agree entirely an excellent work by a world forensic expert.  But Richard Cullen set out with the intention of proving one thing only.  That Oswald Rayner was in the Palace that night and that it was his gun which fired the execution shot and that British Intelligence was involved.  That after all is the title of his book!  He needed to disprove the poison theory and investigated the forensic evidence.  He did not need to investigate the forensic evidence from the yard, and why should he spend hours, days even doing so.  He simply dismissed all the Yussupov/Purishkevich writings of poisoned wine and cakes, rising from the dead and escape into the yard as romantic fiction.   

Offline John Walker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2014, 11:48:38 AM »
Dear Truthseeker!  Whilst writing my last post I was thinking of your initial question.  Because of his very nature Rasputin attracted widely conflicting 'biographies'.  Contemporaries were either for him or constructing evidence to use against him.  And who from either side had a balanced impartial view?  Later writings appeared in the 20s and 30s generally from Russian exiles trying to sell their memoirs - leaving one to question whether those memoirs might be spiced up a bit to promote sales.  Original documents were inaccessible in Soviet archives.  Later writers have generally set out with their personal contention as to whether Rasputin was good or bad and selected information and quotations from the numerous sources to support their contention.  In this way what was originally speculation has become established fact because it has appeared in several books when actually it is generally established bunkum.
Forum admin makes the excellent point that Rasputin was only in the Palace half a dozen times.  Forum admin, I presume, notes there is no documentary evidence, as might be expected, to support his being there more regularly and more intimately with the family and particularly the children.  Other writers suggest he almost lived there!  It's suits their take on Rasputin and his influence.
So, Truthseeker, read everything, particularly contemporary documents.  Weave your way through the intriguing tangle and hold in mind with every word you read "Who wrote this?  Why did they write it?  Did they have their own angle?".  Then use your own judgment as to what is sensible, what is likely to have been, what fits with facts.  In the end like most people you will probably believe what you want to believe!     

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2014, 02:35:07 PM »
Then how do you account for the police scene of crime documents which state clearly by forensic doctor Zavadsky (I am in Petersburg at the moment without my reference material and writing from memory I may have the name wrong) that blood was found in the front yard?  How do you explain the photographs of blood on the doorstep?  That blood, by the same forensic report was proved to be human?  Whose was it if it wasn't Rasputin's?  Do you contend two people were murdered in the palace that night?
How do you suggest Rasputin got from the cellar to the back yard, where you contend he was shot? 
How do you actually know who was and who was not in the Palace that night?  That question, with arrival and departure times, has always been and remains one of the biggest mysteries.
How do you explain the existence of a police photograph showing the entry point of the execution shot in the centre of Rasputin's forehead, if, as you claim, he was shot in the back of the head? 
Richard Cullen's is forensically by far the best book on the subject.  I agree entirely an excellent work by a world forensic expert.  But Richard Cullen set out with the intention of proving one thing only.  That Oswald Rayner was in the Palace that night and that it was his gun which fired the execution shot and that British Intelligence was involved.  That after all is the title of his book!  He needed to disprove the poison theory and investigated the forensic evidence.  He did not need to investigate the forensic evidence from the yard, and why should he spend hours, days even doing so.  He simply dismissed all the Yussupov/Purishkevich writings of poisoned wine and cakes, rising from the dead and escape into the yard as romantic fiction.   

You look at the series of events backwards.  He was shot in the Courtyard, then dragged back into the house while they figured out how to get rid of the body.  That is the explanation for the blood trail.  I helped Richard with his book, and actually his initial thesis wasn't about Raynor specifically.  He only got onto the British involvement trail after.  His initial thought was indeed to dismiss every word of Yussupov et al, and simply analyze everything ELSE to see what made sense.  The tales of poison and rising from the dead are all total and utter fiction.  Nobody will ever know who specifically was or was not in the house and the person(s) who pulled the trigger shooting and killing Rasputin will never be known as the actual killers never revealed their identity to anyone other than each other in the Palace.


Offline John Walker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2014, 04:38:04 PM »
Thank you Forum Admin.  Yes I have read Cullen.  Have you read На Великом Изломе (Дело об убийстве Распутина) from"Архив русской революции" С.В.Завадский "На велоком изломе" т. VIII. Berlin 1923?  This is a primary document; it is in Russian but the relevant facts are reported in Nelipa pp 209 -15. 
Fyodor van Nandelshtedt, Procurator of the District Court, sent Procurator Sergei Zavadsky and Special Forensic Investigator Victor Sereda to the Palace on the morning of the murder.  Blood was found in the front court yard of No 92 and in profusion on the doorstep.  That blood was forensically tested by Sereda that day and it proved to be human.
I responded to this post after reading Forum Admin's "Rasputin was dead in the rear courtyard of the Yussupov Moika Palace from an execution style gunshot to the back of the skull....."  Cullen writes, p 200, "The farce of Rasputin's resurrection didn't occur, there was no escape into the yard......."  Wrong!  In his otherwise excellent book Cullen makes no mention of either Zavadsky or Sereda, the two men who led the investigation.  He was presumably unaware of the existence of Zavadsky's 1923 report.
So Rasputin did make it up into the courtyard of 92 and the gunshots reported by Vlasyuk and Yefimov were those of Purishkevich firing 'at' him.
I assume Forum Admin's "....to the back of the head...." was written in error.

Offline GeorgePe

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2014, 03:54:56 AM »
First hand opinion? . . . . My grandfather Lt. A.S.Butakov (later Colonel) was a palace guard at that time, after finishing at the military academy. I am a direct descendant of Admiral Grigory Ivanovich Butakov.  My mother recalls my Grandfather saying that Rasputin was "Cумасшедший" (A madman) and  "психопат" (A psychopath).
He met the man and that was his opinion.
Check out this URL for more information -  http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/434/-life-death-rasputin/

Regards.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2015, 04:39:39 PM »
Other books:
Prologe to the Revolution The Murder of Rasputin Ron Moe good account of the politics ect surrounding Rasputin
Nelpa's book is the best on the murder it's self
Rasputin and the Jews good discussion of Rasputin and his defense of Jews which is one of the reasons he was so hated.