Author Topic: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)  (Read 49204 times)

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Offline Truthseeker

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Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« on: March 17, 2014, 02:04:26 PM »
I am researching Rasputin for my dissertation and am finding it VERY hard to discover what is truth and what is myth. I am hoping that there might be people out there with genuine views and opinions and even, possibly, some TRUTH about the man that seems to have created such passion in so many people in his time, both adoration and hatred!

I am really looking forward to some serious discussion on the subject, thanks.

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 02:20:43 PM »
This entire thread is full of such information.  It might be easier for you to ask for specific questions or specific information.  I suggest reading these threads first then asking specific questions.

Offline Truthseeker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 03:05:02 PM »
Thanks - I am in the process of working my way through the forum as we speak. There is some interesting stuff here but I confess that I am hoping to find someone who might specialise in Rasputin history to guide me to reputable academic sources?  I am beginning to believe that he might have been a psychopathic personality, many of his reported qualities do seem to correspond with known psychopaths in more modern times, but I am looking for factual history rather than the myths.

He is an intriguing mystery!

Offline Превед

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 03:05:18 PM »
Please not that Rasputin's surname, which have been given all kind sof (im)moral interprations derives rom Russian распутье - crossroads, the same way Putin derives from путь, road. I.e. someone who lives by the road or at the crossroads.

The word is for example used in the title of Vasily Vasnetsov's painting "Витязь на распутье" - The Knight at the Crossroads:



« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 03:14:53 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 03:15:28 PM »
Rasputin: The Untold Story by Joseph T. Fuhrmann ·is pretty good factually.

Radzinsky is pretty useless. If you speak/read French, Raspoutine by Alexander Spiridovitch, Payot Paris 1932 is good, although has some errors, written by Nicholas II's Chief of Secret Personal Security who had copies of all of the Okhrana survellance reports on Rasputin and made a long study to research all first hand accounts.

Richard Cullen's book is very good, although there has been some questioning of his forensic conclusions, however his factual background research is outstanding.

Offline Truthseeker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 03:21:03 PM »
So far, I have looked at Maria Rasputin's book and I'm reading Edvard Radzinsky's 'Rasputin, The Last Word' in which he is adamant that Rasputin derives from 'rasputa' which means deviant or debauched? He is dismissive of the claim that it means 'crossroads'. I admit I have been wondering how reputable an historian he is so thank you for your recommendation and will see if I can find a copy of the book you suggest.

Offline Превед

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 03:28:25 PM »
Rasputin appeared to "distance heal" Alexey Nikolayevich because he adviced to let nature run its course and stop giving the patient the new wonder drug aspirin, whose anti-coagulant qualities were unknown at the time.

If Rasputin had any esoteric knowlegde it was perhaps about the basis of aspirin, meadowsweet - spiraea > aspirin, a typical northern plant, also native to Siberia.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 03:34:36 PM »
So far, I have looked at Maria Rasputin's book and I'm reading Edvard Radzinsky's 'Rasputin, The Last Word' in which he is adamant that Rasputin derives from 'rasputa' which means deviant or debauched?

That would be распутник, rasputnik.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 03:37:46 PM »
So far, I have looked at Maria Rasputin's book and I'm reading Edvard Radzinsky's 'Rasputin, The Last Word' in which he is adamant that Rasputin derives from 'rasputa' which means deviant or debauched? He is dismissive of the claim that it means 'crossroads'. I admit I have been wondering how reputable an historian he is so thank you for your recommendation and will see if I can find a copy of the book you suggest.

One fact is now without dispute.  Rasputin was his family name for generations before his birth, it isn't that uncommon in his region and it has nothing to do with "debauched".

More current facts: Rasputin never had sex with the Empress or the Grand Duchesses.  Rasputin was inside the Palace itself only perhaps 6 or 7 times.  He almost always met with the Imperial Family elsewhere.  Nicholas II was under no real influence of Rasputin directly. Rasputin was dead in the rear Courtyard of the Yussupov Moika Palace from an execution style gunshot to the back of the skull iin addition to two other fatal gunshots to his body, and so was long dead by the time he went into the Neva.  There was no poison in his system at all.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 03:52:47 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline Превед

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 04:09:56 PM »
Well, we can't know for sure, because "wayward", "de-via-te" etc. is also in Russian taken from the concrete meaning, just like in English. Even though the most common Russian surname (Смирнов - Smirnov) is derived from a personal quality (смирный - meek, gentle - perhaps a prized quality in a land of servitude?), it is rather unusual for adjectival nicknames about personal qualities, especially negative ones, to turn into surnames. (The many animal-derived Russian surnames, from wolf, hare, bear, sparrow, nightingale etc. are probably derived from nicknames alluding to the qualities associated with these animals, I'd guess, if they are not outright totemistic). I'd rather suspect the common surname Vinogradov, derived from виноград, vinograd, grape, to be indicative of a debauched ancestor....

It is much more likely that a surname based on a concrete, geographical feature is indeed a habitational name. Though there is also the possibility that it is derived from распутица, rasputitsa, spring thaw, the period when you couldn't tell where the road was and it all was one big mess / crossroads.

Rasputin's Russian Wikipedia article says:

Родоначальником рода Распутиных был «Изосим Федоров сын». В переписной книге крестьян села Покровского за 1662 год говорится, что он с женой и тремя сыновьями — Семёном, Насоном и Евсеем — пришёл на Покровскую слободу за двадцать лет до того из Яренского уезда и «стал на пашню». Сын Насон позже получил прозвище «Роспута». От него пошли все Роспутины, ставшие в начале XIX века Распутиными. По дворовой переписи 1858 года в Покровском значилось более тридцати крестьян, носивших фамилию «Распутины», в том числе и Ефим, отец Григория. Фамилия происходит от слов «распутье», «распутица», «перепутье».
=
The ancestor of the Rasputin family was "Izosim son of Fyodor'." The census book of the peasants of the village of Pokrovskoye for 1662 says that he and his wife and three sons - Simon, Nason and Evsey -  came to the free village of Pokrovskoe twenty years before the uyezd of Yarensk " began on the land ." The son Nason later earned the nickname "Rosputa ".  From him descended all the Rosputins who became in the early XIX century Rasputin. According to the 1858 census Pokrovskoye had imore than thirty peasants who carried the name "Rasputin" , including Efim , the father of Gregory . The name comes from the words " crossroads ", " thaw ", " intersection."

BTW regarding the spelling Rosputin instead of Rasputin it's must be due to the issue of Russian vowel reduction okanye /akanye, also an issue when going from Church Slavic to modern Russian. Archaοc okanye dialects which pronounce "o" as /o/ where modern Russian reduces it to /a/ may sound Church Slavic. I don't know if this applied to Rasputin's Siberian dialect.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 04:30:27 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 04:22:25 PM »
Rasputins Russian Wikipedia article says:

Source for the family history:
Боханов А. Н.: Правда о Григории Распутине. — М.: Рус. издат. центр, 2011. — C. 57, 58.
By the same author:
Боханов А. Н.: Распутин. Анатомия мифа. — М.: АСТ-ПРЕСС. 2000. — 416 с.: ил. — (Историческое расследование). — ISBN 5-7805-0715-5

Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Truthseeker

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 04:51:06 PM »
Thank you, part of my problem has been finding knowledgeable information on a subject that is surrounded by myth and half truths! I am finding his story fascinating to follow! I have also found an old 1800's newspaper clip that places a 'Rasputin' as arrested for being a Nihilist in 1895. Would this have been when Grigori was supposedly wandering through Russia as a religious pilgrim? Do you think it likely that there might be  any connection?

Offline wakas

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 06:01:06 PM »
Rasputin was dead in the rear Courtyard of the Yussupov Moika Palace from an execution style gunshot to the back of the skull iin addition to two other fatal gunshots to his body, and so was long dead by the time he went into the Neva.  There was no poison in his system at all.



I thought this gunshot didn't kill him and that he died drowned.
After death, there is not death, but life.

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 07:47:24 PM »
Grigori Rasputin was never arrested as a Nihilist. Nor was he Khlysti..

The autopsy photos show without doubt that Rasputin's brain was blown out of his head by a close range gun shot.  He was NOT DROWNED nor Poisoned.  THOSE are untrue myths.


Offline historyfan

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Re: Grigori Rasputin - seeking information and opinion :)
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2014, 09:02:13 PM »
Read Margarita Nelipa's book, The Murder of Grigorii Rasputin. Ms Nelipa is a member of these forums. : )