Author Topic: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II  (Read 28368 times)

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Offline DNAgenie

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The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« on: July 20, 2014, 02:00:53 AM »
I have just come across a most interesting book, entitled "The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II", by Wendy Slater, which explains why so many Russians refuse to believe that the Ekaterinburg skeletons were those of Tsar Nicholas and his family.  It gives a detailed exposition of the course of events after the skeletons were first discovered, examined and analysed.  Given the extraordinary degree of confusion, argument and controversy that followed, it is not hard to see why many Russians still think the whole thing was a fake.

The author concludes that the skeletons are indeed those of the Tsar, Tsarina and their children, but she also points out that there is some evidence to the contrary. So I think it would be wise to take this evidence into account before ridiculing the appearance of new claimants to the Romanov family. Those claims are not as stupid as we in the West have assumed.

As far as I can see the book does a good job in weighing the evidence (much of it being new to me). I have it on order but my assessment is not yet complete, being done through a google scan via the googlebooks facility so it is still a bit scrappy.

The book (and reviews) is available at amazon.com  via http://www.amazon.com/The-Many-Deaths-Tsar-Nicholas/dp/0415427975

Offline TimM

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2014, 02:13:58 AM »
Quote
The author concludes that the skeletons are indeed those of the Tsar, Tsarina and their children, but she also points out that there is some evidence to the contrary. So I think it would be wise to take this evidence into account before ridiculing the appearance of new claimants to the Romanov family. Those claims are not as stupid as we in the West have assumed.


DNA evidence has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they all died on July 17, 1918. 

I thought we'd settled this.

Offline DNAgenie

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2014, 02:23:08 AM »
Yes, we have settled this, and I agree that it is the correct decision.  But I was not aware of the evidence against it, which has not been published outside Russia.

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2014, 09:43:45 AM »
Bob Atchison went to Ekaterinburg and met with Avdonin while the remains were still in his custody. Avdonin himself took Bob to where they were found and walked him through the entire sequence of events and even permitted Bob to view all of the remains in person.

Bob's take is that any skepticism is wholly and completely unfounded and Avdonin was and is correct in every aspect. 

Offline TimM

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2014, 10:07:15 AM »
Yeah, they all died that day, cased closed.

Offline DNAgenie

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2014, 06:59:18 PM »
I agree that the case should be closed, but the point I was trying to make is that as far as many Russians are concerned it is not closed. It is still a highly controversial matter in Russia, and they can quote evidence against it. It explains why new claimants to be descendants of Romanov survivors still keep turning up, and why books are still being written with that thesis. I merely wished to point this out, as many posters on this forum seem to regard such people as crazies. They are not crazy, merely misguided.

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2014, 07:29:23 PM »
A substantial portion ARE crazy. Trust me. I've been dealing with them for ages.

Offline DNAgenie

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2014, 08:58:17 PM »
For those interested in the details of the controversy there are informative articles by Margarita Nelipa and Helen Azar, entitled "Romanov Imperial Bones Revisited: why does doubt remain about who is buried in the St. Petersburg Fortress?"  at
http://www.oocities.org/mushkah/Nagai.html
and by forensic DNA scientist Dr Mike Coble, entitled "The identification of the Romanovs: Can we (finally) put the controversies to rest?" at
http://www.investigativegenetics.com/content/2/1/20

« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 09:02:44 PM by DNAgenie »

Offline TimM

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 05:07:38 PM »
Quote
I agree that the case should be closed, but the point I was trying to make is that as far as many Russians are concerned it is not closed. It is still a highly controversial matter in Russia, and they can quote evidence against it. It explains why new claimants to be descendants of Romanov survivors still keep turning up, and why books are still being written with that thesis. I merely wished to point this out, as many posters on this forum seem to regard such people as crazies. They are not crazy, merely misguided.

Here's a scary thought.  Putin manipulates the Russian evidence to connect himself to the Romanovs in order to crown himself Tsar.  I wouldn't put anything past that megalomaniac.

Offline Превед

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2014, 05:56:01 PM »
Here's a scary thought.  Putin manipulates the Russian evidence to connect himself to the Romanovs in order to crown himself Tsar.  I wouldn't put anything past that megalomaniac.

Just as insanse, but a little more modest and fun if he claimed that his grandfather, who was a cook to Lenin and Stalin, actually was the resurfaced imperial kitchen boy Leonid Sednev! :-)
Березы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline wakas

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 06:09:26 PM »
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Just as insanse, but a little more modest and fun if he claimed that his grandfather, who was a cook to Lenin and Stalin, actually was the resurfaced imperial kitchen boy Leonid Sednev! :-)
Lol, you made me laugh with that ! Very funny and insane indeed :-)
After death, there is not death, but life.

Offline TimM

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Re: The Many Deaths of Tsar Nicholas II
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014, 10:51:12 AM »
Let's not give him any ideas!