Author Topic: regiments  (Read 8790 times)

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Offline tian79

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regiments
« on: February 17, 2004, 07:32:02 AM »
Olga: 3rd Yelisavetgrad Hussar Regiment

Tatiana: 8th Voznesensk Lancer Regiment

Maria: 9th Kazan Dragoon Regiment

Anastasia: 148th Caspian Infantry Regiment

When did the girls get their regiments and are there any pictures of Anastasia in her uniform?

Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: regiments
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2004, 09:58:52 AM »
I hope this helps.

Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna became commander-in-cheif of the 3rd Elizavetgradsky Hussar's Regimment on 11 July, 1909. One of her activities n this position was  was to concern herslef with the uniform of her regiment.  

In 1911, on the petition of the Grand DUchess, the Elizavetgradsky troops were given short, fur lined cloaks to be worn with full-dress uniforms.  In gratitude, the Hussars wrote a regimental song in thanks which went:

We hussars are not of foil,
We are all of damask steel.
How we value Olga's name,
Our white cloaks, and our flag of flame!

Grand Duchess Tatiana was given the 8th Voznesensky Lancers in 1911.  

Judging from these dates, it appears that the Grand Duchesses were given their regiments on their 14th birthdays.  

Hope this helps!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Nick_Nicholson »
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RobMoshein

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Re: regiments
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2004, 10:38:44 AM »
Nick;

My research showed that Olga's Regiment was awarded the White Pelisse by Nicholas II not on her petition, but rather as a gift from him to her and her Regiment on the occassion of her "Coming of Age" ball at Livadia November 3, 1911.

Also, my source says that Olga's Regiment was the 9th Elizavetgradsky Hussars, not the 3rd....so I am now not sure which is correct.

Rob

Offline Janet_Ashton

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Re: regiments
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2004, 02:01:42 PM »
Nick
    Tatiana in a letter to her cousin Louise of Battenberg describes the regiment as having been given "for my namesday" rather than birthday - and also mentions that it was the regiment formerly commanded by Louise's grandfather Alexander of Hesse. Interesting that these connections and genaeological points were noticed by and counted for such young children, I think....though perhaps someone asked her to mention it!

I have no idea about the other girls though.

Janet

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: regiments
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2004, 11:22:36 PM »
Hi Everyone!

This reminds me of something I heard from Princess Vera Konstantinovna:  I had mentioned something about the Colonelcies-in-Chief of various Grand Duchesses, and we were talking about her aunt Olga Konstantinovna's patronage of a battleship.  I said "Oh yes, she was the only GDss to be patron of a battleship, rather than a regiment." And VK said, "Oh, no!  She had regiments too.  We all did -- and more than one." I did question her on this, referring to the well-known photos of Olga and Tatiana Nicholaievna in their Colonel's uniforms, and she said that each member of the family had many more than one regiment under his or her aegis.  She said that she herself could remember three regiments that she had been associated with, although she had been too young to receive her Colonelcy -- that happened at 14 or 15, she recalled.  She had to attend luncheons with officers of these regiments on their special days, and every so often, she would get a letter from them containing regimental news, to which she would have to reply.

I probed a little bit more on the subject, asking if perhaps -- for example -- Olga N had been Colonel-in-Chief of the 3rd Elizavetgradsky Hussars in particular, but patron of all Hussars in general.  She said that that MAY have been the case, she hadn't really been all that interested at the time, being so young, but she was absolutely adamant that each Grand Duchess had had more than one regiment.

And of course, I think it's been pretty well established that Alexei had the patronage of more than one regiment.

I think the key to this lies in the definition of "C-in-C" versus "patron."  They seem often to be used interchangeably in casual writing -- perhaps the official definition and usage is more particular?

Penny
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Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: regiments
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2004, 09:56:00 AM »
Dear Penny,

An interesting point.  VK was amazing, wasn't she?  

According to the research of Asia Kolesnikova and Dr. Tamara Korshunova at the Hermitage, the first regiment of which Alexei was made Commander-in-Chief was the Life-Guard Finland Regiment, of which he was made CC in 1906.  The text implies that this was the FIRST regiment of which he was CC, but not necessarily the only one.  

I know from the same publication that at birth, the Tsarevitch was enrolled in H.M. Maria Feodorovna's Cavalry Guards, The Life-Guards Chasseurs Regiment, The Life-Guard Engineers Batallion , His Majesty's Life-Guard 1st Urals of the Composite Cossack Regiment , and His Imperial Majesty's Own Convoy.

It would be interesting to know how the regiments were assigned, and what the prerequisites were.  

Wouldn't all the Imperial patrons be listed in the Almanach de la Cour?  I know the anniversatries of the regiments and their patron saint's days were.  I'm going to the library next week -- I'll check it out while I'm there.

Best!  Nick

P.S.  Rob -- my info. about the "Pelisse" came from the catalogue of the Broughton Show for Nicholas and Alexandra, as did the lyrics to the Hussar's song.  (inv. no. 330)

That research, incidentally was also done by Asia Kolesnikova.  She's the one who said it was the 3rd Elizavetgradsky Regiment. It is clear from her research that the petition for the pelisse was submitted by the Commander in Cheif (Olga N) in 1911.  Just goes to show once and for all, nobody really knows!  There are things out there which are mistakes printed over and over.  I'm just reporting what I read!  Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Nick_Nicholson »
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Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: regiments
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2004, 10:03:33 AM »
Oh, and a clarification -- when I said fourteenth birthday, I should have said on the Name Day inn their fourteenth year.  The Imperial Family didn't really celebrate birthdays in the English manner, from what I know.  Bob, did they ever note down birthdays in their diaries?
Nick Nicholson
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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: regiments
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2004, 10:10:30 AM »
Thanks Nick;

Spiridovitch was my source, perhaps his calling it the 9th Regiment was a mistake or typo.  It seems logical to me that perhaps  both are correct....Olga probably did then make the petition earlier in the year, and Nicholas surprised her at the party by publicly granting it...Spiridovitch goes on for two full pages about the elaborate ceremony at Olga's party giving them the Pelisse etc and the exchange of telegrams to the Regiment from the delegation present at the party etc and Olga's reactions.....

Rob

William L. McCaughey

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Re: regiments
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2004, 01:06:43 PM »
There exists a photograph of the Grand Duchess Maria in her "chef's" uniform (9th Kazanski Dragoon Regiment of Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess Maria Nicholaevna).  The photograph of her sisters, the Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna and Tatiana Nicholaevna, are well known.  Their uniforms still exist and used to be displayed at an exhibit in the restored wing of the Alexander Palace in Tsarskoe Selo.  Maria's uniform was not displayed, but I am sure that it still exists.  I have seen no photographs of Anastasia in military uniform.  The Czarevitch Alexei Nicholaevich was chef of the Atamanski Guard Cossack Regiment (the Heir Apparent's Own) as well as other regiments.  I will consult my library and get back with a list of regiments members of the Imperial Family were chefs of.