Author Topic: last Tsars Killers  (Read 11782 times)

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Offline edubs31

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 08:44:37 AM »
Yourovsky repented in the end. After the murders he drove to Moscow and brought all that was found in the bodies. When he arrived in Moscow he expected to be received as an hero. Lenin never saw him and he was given a job in the archives. His mother died of starvation in Ekaterinburg. His daughter was arrested and sent to Siberia, he asked for Belodorov's help, but nothing was done. He died without seeing his daughter. I think he told his son how much he regretted to have shot the tsar.


Amelia
(Eva McDonald)

Despite what you might have read in FOTR, the information is not correct. Yurovsky never repented.

He was a proud Bolshevik and a coldblooded murderer who had conducted a specific job for comrade Lenin.

In this context it matters little that he failed to see his daughter, before he drew his last breath.

Margarita


Funny how these rumors get started in the first place. How would it serve anyone's purpose to spread a tale of Yurovsky's false repent? The way I see it you have three basic sides to the Yurovsky equation...

1) Soviet sympathizers who, one would think, would not want others believing that Yurovsky had second thoughts about his act of "patriotism" later in life.
2) Romanov sympathizers who would prefer to cast Yurovsky and his henchman in the poorest light possible. Not make up a story of repent that might help to soften the image of the ruthless killer and architect of the Ipatiev murders.
3) Those who are completely indifferent. This includes the majority of the population that cares little about the last of the Romanovs, their fate, and the men responsible, and also those who simply have little to no knowledge on the subject. Certainly they aren't the one's creating lies and spreading rumors.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Sarushka

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2014, 11:16:07 AM »
Yourovsky repented in the end. After the murders he drove to Moscow and brought all that was found in the bodies. When he arrived in Moscow he expected to be received as an hero. Lenin never saw him and he was given a job in the archives. His mother died of starvation in Ekaterinburg. His daughter was arrested and sent to Siberia, he asked for Belodorov's help, but nothing was done. He died without seeing his daughter. I think he told his son how much he regretted to have shot the tsar.


Despite what you might have read in FOTR, the information is not correct. Yurovsky never repented.

He was a proud Bolshevik and a coldblooded murderer who had conducted a specific job for comrade Lenin.

In this context it matters little that he failed to see his daughter, before he drew his last breath.


Can I ask each of you what your sources are for these assertions, so the rest of us can investigate and assess the opposing viewpoints for ourselves?
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline amelia

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2014, 01:06:12 PM »
My source is FOTR. I have read the book quite a while ago,but I am sure that that was what I read.

Amelia
(Eva McDonald)

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2014, 04:29:41 PM »
I wish I could be helpful with regard to sources, Sarushka, but I can't at the moment. But consider the following.

First, though volume, even in historiography,  isn't everything, it should be taken into account. The only source alleged so far for Yurovsky's regret over his murder of Nicholas and his family is FOTR. The scholarship and reliability  of that tome is seriously questionable, to put it mildly. No other source, (and I've read a hell of a lot), alleges any regret or repentance on Yurovsky's part

I believe it was Yurovsky's son Alexander who was the immediate personal source of his father's statement of regret. I have read (can't say where, Sarah) that he claimed the opposite, that his father was totally unrepentant.

In terms of what we might consider the internal consistency of Yurovsky's life, the conclusion would be that he did not feel regret.I think we all know , not only his views on Bolshevism/communism, but also on autocracy and monarchy  More importantly, we know what he did, personally. That is, he was a consistent, ruthless servant of the Soviet state, proud of his loyalty and dedication. Regret over his murders of the IF is totally out of his character

For what it's worth , the case of his daughter Rimma confirms the above. She was as dedicated to the Party as her father, perhaps more. She was also dedicated to her father himself, as he was to her. As witness their  great desire to meet again after her imprisonment.

Any putative regrets on Yurovsky's part would have to have been very belated, as we know he was one of the 'stars' of the 1934 reunion at Ipatiev House of the Romanov killers and Urals leadership from 1918. He spoke at length on that occasion, and ,let's be clear, this was a Bolshevik celebration and commemoration of their historic role in the brutal end of Tsarism and of  the Romanov line. (recall that the murders of GD Elizabeth ,GD Serge Michailovich and the Konstantine princes at Alapaevsk took place within 24 hours of the IH slayings). Yurovsky was 56 years old by then and would have had a long time to evolve morally towards repentance.

It's not impossible that he felt regret when nearing death, but it's extremely unlikely. It certainly wouldn't have derived from any religious motive , as he had none. I'd certainly like to hear of any sources alleging his regret, but all I've heard is the questionable and contradictory statements of his son Alexander. If this latter had become aware of end-of-life remorse on his father's part, his status as a young Soviet naval officer would have made frankness and public acknowledgement of such very problematic.
Rodney G.

Offline Greg_King

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2014, 08:52:46 PM »
Normally I would avoid this nonsense....however, since a lack of critical reading faculities seems afoot....

FOTR quotes British author Francis McCullagh, who interviewed Yurovsky a few years after the murders.  If one bothers to read the page (510, in the paperback version) one will see that the passage says:

McCullagh became convinced of Yurovsky's "feelings of remorse and horror" at the murders of the Romanovs.

The source is Francis McCullagh, A Prisoner of the Reds: The Story of a British Officer Captured in Siberia, London, John Murray Publishers, 1921, page 142

Thus, for anyone reading carefully, FOTR DOES NOT STATE any opinion other than this, which I will helpfully point out to those laboring under apparent inabilities (not you Sarushka) to discern between quoted material and content, is MCCULLAGH'S OPINION.  If you have problems with his veracity please deal with them elsewhere but don't reflexively attack FOTR simply because it accurately quotes his opinion - feel free to check out his book to verify.

 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 08:54:22 PM by Greg_King »

Offline Sarushka

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2014, 09:20:28 PM »
The only source alleged so far for Yurovsky's regret over his murder of Nicholas and his family is FOTR. The scholarship and reliability  of that tome is seriously questionable, to put it mildly.

Although I myself take issue with a number of the claims put forth in FOTR, one thing that is absolutely reliable is the source notes. Regardless of what you think of King & Wilson's perspective on the Romanovs, their notes will always allow you to investigate their sources further and form your own conclusions.


The source is Francis McCullagh, A Prisoner of the Reds: The Story of a British Officer Captured in Siberia, London, John Murray Publishers, 1921, page 142

You must have posted this literally as I was reaching for my copy of FOTR -- thanks for saving me the trouble of tracking the info down!
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2014, 11:09:32 PM »
Greg, with regard to my post:  My reference to FOTR as being the lone source for Yurovsky's alleged remorse for the Romanov murders I took from "Amelia"s post. I certainly didn't consider FOTR a primary source , nor you and Penny as such. To the extent that I attributed to you and Penny statements from Francis MCCullagh I do apologize. I read FOTR many years ago , and didn't have it at hand to reference.
Rodney G.

Offline Greg_King

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2014, 08:22:03 PM »
No need to apologize. But appreciated anyway - thanks.

Offline Nictionary

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Re: last Tsars Killers
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2017, 04:00:40 PM »
Quote
Grigory Nikulin dies 1960

According to FOTR, Nikulin died "shortly after" his 1964 radio interview.
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.

Albert Einstein