Author Topic: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?  (Read 3985 times)

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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« on: April 18, 2015, 12:13:42 PM »
I was watching Animal Planet's "Dogs 101" the other day and a segment about Frenchies came on. The show mentioned that like many purebred dogs, Frenchies have a number of complications and health problems. One of these was that Frenchies cannot breed on their own (their back legs and hips are apparently too weak and narrow). It's also not uncommon for a female to need a c-section for the same reason.

The book "The Romanov Sisters" mentions that Ortipo had a litter of pups and that the IF did not keep them. So my question is: Was there anything written anywhere about intentionally breeding Ortipo? It seems odd that they would since they didn't even keep any pups, but it also seems unlikely Ortipo could become pregnant without human help.

I did think of the possibility that these issues didn't exist for bulldogs 100 years ago, but pictures of Ortipo show us that she looked very much like modern bulldogs.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 01:04:16 PM »

The book "The Romanov Sisters" mentions that Ortipo had a litter of pups and that the IF did not keep them. So my question is: Was there anything written anywhere about intentionally breeding Ortipo? It seems odd that they would since they didn't even keep any pups...

I did think of the possibility that these issues didn't exist for bulldogs 100 years ago, but pictures of Ortipo show us that she looked very much like modern bulldogs.
I agree that they didn't intentionally breed her. There are things science can never explain (whch I call miracles), and I think Ortipo getting pregnant was one of such. Also, knowing how IF was when it comes to spending money, it's most likely they didn't spend just to get Ortipo impregnated. It was also time of war when that happened...they must be wise enough to think not to spend money for such a purpose.

(I'm sorry for telling only my opinion and not providing any concrete evidence...)

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Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2015, 07:11:41 PM »
I would assume that the issue with breeding is that the male has a hard time mounting the female? Perhaps Ortino bred with a dog of a different breed? I can't say I know a whole lot about the pretty pup
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Offline Victory_L

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Re: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 03:32:58 AM »
Я думаю, что за собакой просто не досмотрели  Щенки были случайно Упс!!!!! Собаку со щенками держали отдельно, не в комнатах девочек. Один раз ее привезли со щенками, чтобы дети могли на них посмотреть.  Об этом пишет Татьяна  отцу в письме.
I think the dog is simply not inspected ;- ) Puppies were "accidentally" Oops !!!!! Dog with puppies were kept separately, not in the rooms of girls. Once brought her puppies so that children can see them. Tatiana writes about this in a letter to his father.

Offline mitia

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Re: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 06:00:25 AM »
In 1914, there were not many international breeders of French Bulldogs, since the breed was rather new, dating back to the late 1870s, and beeing recognized as a breed in the late 1890s. Frenchies have always and continue to breed by themselves. Using artificial methods is a disgrace for the breed and results in the poor specimen we can see worldwide nowadays. In the same way, a female French Bulldog only has a caesarian if there is a SERIOUS problem when the puppies arrive. A puppy girl Frenchie who was born by caesarian should never have puppies, because in her turn she will generally needs a caesarian. I have had French Bulldogs all my life, pets, not to be bred from. I am not a breeder. Breeding French Bulldogs is a matter of genuine and devoted to the breed people. French Bulldogs are healthy dogs, as far as amateur breeders do not push the standart to an hyper type of Frenchies : too cobby, too small, too low, too flat on the face. People who breed Frenchies at errands, with no knowledge of the breed, pedigrees, lines, health issues are greatly responsible for the poor state of the breed worlwide nowadays. Ortipo was a pet, she was not bred from. Her pregnancy and puppies were an accident. It did not happen again. Yes GD Tatiana wrote that the puppies were ugly and that no one knew who the father was. These things happen : one of my friend has been breeding Frenchies for the 45 past years. Once, one of her female French Bulldog who was then in season, managed to  jump over the garden fences. The result was a litter of a unique puppy girl, a mixture of Corgi and Frenchie, who was named Meg the Mixture, better known as Meg the Mix !!!

Offline Kassafrass

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Re: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 08:56:15 AM »
From what I've read and heard from veterinarians, Frenchies have a notorious reputation for having not-so-spectacular health. That adorable smushed in fact isn't good for respiratory health just as we've seen with Persian cats. The article below is from a veterinarian and talks about some of those problems and even mentions a c-section. I wonder if they are more common for these small dogs.

http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/this-veterinarians-love-hate-relationship-with-french-bulldogs
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Offline TheLionandTheEagle

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Re: Tatiana's Frenchie Ortipo - intentionally bred?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2017, 04:21:50 AM »
Many breeds have gotten worse, health-wise, in the last 100 years. 

This link shows images of the changes:
http://emgn.com/entertainment/100-years-ago-these-13-popular-dog-breeds-were-unrecognizable/

Many bulldog breeds are now artificial inseminated and delivered by c-section -- they literally cannot bred accidentally, because their anatomy is so distorted by poorly conducted selective breeding. This was not the case in the early 20th century.

Dog health is, in general, worse than it used to be.  Most dogs in the US are overweight.  Many breeders have breed unhealthy stock, etc.  The original Rin Tin Tin from silent films lived longer than the average large dog today.  Many German Shepherds now are put down at a tragically young age due to horrific orthopedic problems. Many breeds of toy dogs have been bred down even smaller, causing danger during delivery of the pups.  On the flipside, some large breeds have been bred to be oversized, which is not good for the joints.



Ortino's face does not look as dramatic as a modern Frenchie's, thankfully.  Some of them these days require surgery to breathe properly -- and they make an odd noise when they try to breathe.  While I can't see Ortino's back end in the photo, I wouldn't be surprised if her hips were more correct, in terms of orthopedic issues, than is typical today.