Author Topic: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED  (Read 82131 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2015, 08:46:24 AM »
Update: not sure what exactly is implied here, could they possibly be questioning whether Alexander III’s remains are really in his tomb? http://www.theromanovfamily.com/romanov-family-tomb-of-tsar-alexander-iii-opened-previously/

Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2015, 10:32:58 AM »
Didn't all the tombs get opened after the civil war when the Soviets were looking for valuables to sell?

If it really isn't Alexander III (which would be a major mess!!!) its probable the remains got mixed up and his are in another tomb in the fortress. It could be any of the Tsars/Grand Dukes. I hope it isn't true though.


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2015, 10:38:04 AM »
Didn't all the tombs get opened after the civil war when the Soviets were looking for valuables to sell?

Yes, but if they knew this was a possibility to begin with, why even attempt to use his remains in these new studies? Any way you look at it, it makes no sense! It's almost like they are trying to have an "out"...

Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2015, 11:51:45 AM »
Didn't all the tombs get opened after the civil war when the Soviets were looking for valuables to sell?

Yes, but if they knew this was a possibility to begin with, why even attempt to use his remains in these new studies? Any way you look at it, it makes no sense! It's almost like they are trying to have an "out"...

Do you really think they knew or suspected beforehand that the wrong remains might be in the tomb? 

I honestly think its a surprise to them too. They have nothing to gain by opening this can of worms. I'm pretty sure the government want this whole ordeal with the last IF over with, so why make even more problems concerning remains that were officially buried decades before the revolution when they could have left it alone? I doubt they want to prolong things or upset the church who they are bending over backwards to please.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2015, 11:57:31 AM »

Do you really think they knew or suspected beforehand that the wrong remains might be in the tomb? 

I honestly think its a surprise to them too. They have nothing to gain by opening this can of worms. I'm pretty sure the government want this whole ordeal with the last IF over with, so why make even more problems concerning remains that were officially buried decades before the revolution when they could have left it alone? I doubt they want to prolong things or upset the church who they are bending over backwards to please.


It was known that tombs had been opened in the 1920's, which could have led to tampering with remains... So yeah, clearly they knew it was a possibility.. Even if they did not know way in advance, they recorded the chipping and shifting, yet they still went ahead and took the sample. So yeah, I do think so. Personally I don't think wrong remains are in the tomb, but what is the point of them bringing this up now? And I am not talking about the Russian government, reopening this case and doing all this was not the government's idea. The government has accepted the authenticity of these remains long ago.

Offline DNAgenie

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2015, 06:00:27 PM »
If the tomb has been opened it gives them an out if the DNA of the purported Alexander III does not match that of Nicholas II. If it does match, no problem.  If not, it does not necessarily mean that Nicholas II's results are invalidated.  It could equally mean that the tomb (and other nearby tombs) were opened at some time after the interment, and the remains mixed up.  That is quite possible, as I know of a family mausoleum in Poland where the tombs were rifled by Russian soldiers in WWII and the skeletal remains were put back into coffins by guesswork.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2015, 07:32:22 PM »
If they really had to do this (which they didn't) they could have used the DNA of numerous other relatives, which would not be questionable. It makes no sense for them to have insisted to exhume AIII and take a sample from him.

Offline holynewmartyr

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2015, 11:28:20 PM »
This  Interfax article provides a few details:

Quote
Grave of Emperor Alexander III may have been opened before - Russian Orthodox Church

Moscow, November 13, Interfax - The Russian Orthodox Church does not rule out that the grave of Alexander III in St. Petersburg's Petropavlovskaya Fortress could have been opened before.

"We are not alleging anything, we are not alleging that the grave was invaded, although we believe it could have happened. The only thing we are alleging now is that the headstone was disassembled and then assembled again," Bishop Tikhon of Yegoryevsk, secretary of the Patriarch's Council on Culture, told a press conference in Moscow on Friday.

"It is possible that the tsar's remains were disturbed, there could have been looting and they are in an inappropriate condition," the bishop said.

The bishop said a possible opening of the grave is indicated by the absence of metal belts holding the marble covers of the headstones, which was discovered by experts who worked in the Sts Peter and Paul Cathedral.

The bishop also said garbage, traces of asbestos and plaster and broken stones had been found under the headstone cover.

Experts now have to lift the stone under the headstone, he said, reiterating that all actions are recorded on video and photographed.

Bishop Tikhon said graves in the Petropavlovskaya Fortress have been opened before, possibly multiple times. He said there is evidence of the opening of tsars' graves, including Peter I and Alexander I, adding that the remains of the latter were not found, the grave was empty and that evidence can become "a weighty argument" to the Russian Orthodox Church. "We are not brushing any evidence aside, we are trying to check it," he said.

The grave of Alexander II is being opened as part of the forensic evaluation of the remains of the family of Russia's last tsar.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 11:34:52 PM by holynewmartyr »
Holy New Martyr Elizabeth, pray for us!

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2015, 02:45:12 PM »

Offline Romanov_Fan19

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2015, 05:32:08 PM »
HES  BEEN THERE OVER 100 YEARS AND THEY ARENT SURE 


Offline DNAgenie

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #71 on: December 25, 2015, 05:42:42 PM »
Romanov Fan wrote:
Quote
HES  BEEN THERE OVER 100 YEARS AND THEY ARENT SURE 

Well that is the question - Has he or hasn't he? In other words: Is he still there now?

There are lots of cases where interred remains were looted during WWII by passing soldiery (of all armies) and the bones from adjoining caskets were scattered around, only to be reinterred by guesswork. This could easily be the case with Alexander III.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2015, 06:09:59 PM »
They closely examined the tomb and it was not opened at any point prior. Alexander III is in there and there is no question.  This was settled weeks ago.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2015, 12:49:31 PM »
They closely examined the tomb and it was not opened at any point prior. Alexander III is in there and there is no question.  This was settled weeks ago.

Yes, I did a follow up story about that too! "ROMANOV FAMILY: TOMB OF ALEXANDER III WAS NOT PREVIOUSLY OPENED BY SOVIETS AFTER ALL" : http://www.theromanovfamily.com/romanov-family-tomb-alexander-iii-not-previously-opened-soviets/

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2015, 03:03:37 PM »
Another update: "ROMANOV FAMILY: GRAND DUCHESS AND TSAREVICH REMAINS IN CUSTODY OF RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH": http://www.theromanovfamily.com/romanov-family-remains-have-been/