Author Topic: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED  (Read 36947 times)

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Offline Lochlanach

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2017, 05:53:00 AM »
I do not think it matters much which is which. They have all been found, and each is known unto God.

I have anyway read that it is by no means certain that all the remains of the original nine bodies have been assigned to the correct coffins. Quite possibly part of Alexei Trupp has been buried with Nicholas. But Trupp was literally loyal to the last, and I do not think Nicholas would have minded.

What I think is more important than these endless arguments is that there should be a proper memorial for the Romanovs whose bodies have never been found, and those of the Imperial Family's household who were shot separately from them after arriving in Ekaterinburg. I have no particular view on where that should be, but within the Peter and Paul Cathedral would seem most appropriate, given that the Imperial Family are there, and the four Grand Dukes shot in the Fortress in January 1919 have no known graves.

Ann

Ann

I think they won't go back to the fortress but to Yekaterinberg instead  because I doubt the ROC will accept the fortess as a suitable resting place. It doesn't matter that much  but I'd rather they stayed in St Petersburg. We shall see.

Offline TimM

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2017, 06:05:26 AM »
The ROC really needs to stop dragging their feet on this issue.  Science is science, and DNA testing as confirmed that the remains are that of Alexei and one of the younger sisters.  Case closed.

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #122 on: March 02, 2017, 07:03:58 AM »
The ROC really needs to stop dragging their feet on this issue.  Science is science, and DNA testing as confirmed that the remains are that of Alexei and one of the younger sisters.  Case closed.

Science and religion don't always make for easy bedfellows ! To be quite honest when the subject of the Romanovs veers into the Orthodox realm of Holy Martyrdom , veneration, etc (as if often does)  I zone out .  But each to their own.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2017, 08:59:19 AM »
Rightly or not, the Russian Orthodox Church has come out very poorly in this. It has given me the impression that they care more for their former Bolshevik masters than the Imperial Family.

Offline TimM

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2017, 06:53:38 AM »
Yeah, they are more interested in gay bashing and bribe taking, it seems. 

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #125 on: March 20, 2017, 10:13:05 AM »
Agreed . This renewed close relationship between Russian church and state results in extremely conservative (kind way of putting it) cultural outlook , laws , arrests and prosecutions .  And the saga of the remains is just another extension of that relationship . The remains will eventually be reunited , but on the Church's terms.

Offline TimM

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #126 on: March 21, 2017, 07:02:22 AM »
Decades of Communist oppression seems to have taught the Church nothing.

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #127 on: June 06, 2017, 05:31:54 AM »
We were told an announcement would be made  on this matter in the second quarter of 2017 . From today that gives them three weeks , although maybe they will wait until 17 July. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out over the next 12 months. The family will surely have to be interred before , or more likely on , 17 July 1918 , but where is anybodys guess.

Offline TimM

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #128 on: June 13, 2017, 05:18:46 AM »
If the ROC would stop dragging its feet on the matter.

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #129 on: September 11, 2017, 10:36:30 AM »
The ROC have stated there will be a conference late this year, or early next, where initial findings of the genetic investigation will be made public . What are the odds now that  internment of ALL the remains together in one place won't happen in July 2018 as predicted?

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #130 on: September 24, 2017, 03:37:28 PM »
Around 1990 I was in St. Petersburg with Suzanne Massie, she went to see Kyril (the Current Patriarch) He was a bishop then, Kostroma?  I don't remember. After that visit we were having dinner and she told me "Bob, I have bad news for you that will upset you.  I spoke with Kyril about the canonization of the Romanovs as you asked.  He told me he would NEVER canonize them in very forceful terms.  He blames them for what happened to Russia."  She said that I should not be surprised because he grew up during the communist era and other prelates from that period held similar views. I believe Kyril is the only thing standing in the way of the remains being recognized by the Russian Church.

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #131 on: September 24, 2017, 06:42:21 PM »
I might be wrong, but my first impression was that the Church of Russia wanted to seal the celebrations of the IF martyrdomís centennial with this very special event, that is, the official recognition of their relics. It does make a bit of sense if you see how it all evolved. Initially, they said that they would have the results in approx. two years. Then they specified the second half of 2017 as the time for the announcements, and finally, now, they say beginning of 2018. It looks like they just kept pushing it a bit forward, so that they reach the time of the big celebrations. Well, if itís going to work for the glory of the IF in a wider scale, within the Church, then (IMO) let it be so. I don't think it would do any harm.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #132 on: September 25, 2017, 02:12:16 AM »
Surely there is no need to exhume Nicholas and family, as their DNA profiles are on file from the  previous tests, unless the argument is that testing has become much more precise since the initial tests were done.

Ann

Offline GDSophie

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #133 on: September 25, 2017, 08:56:30 AM »
Around 1990 I was in St. Petersburg with Suzanne Massie, she went to see Kyril (the Current Patriarch) He was a bishop then, Kostroma?  I don't remember. After that visit we were having dinner and she told me "Bob, I have bad news for you that will upset you.  I spoke with Kyril about the canonization of the Romanovs as you asked.  He told me he would NEVER canonize them in very forceful terms.  He blames them for what happened to Russia."  She said that I should not be surprised because he grew up during the communist era and other prelates from that period held similar views. I believe Kyril is the only thing standing in the way of the remains being recognized by the Russian Church.

And now he won't bury the last two children because he blames them? He blames two innocent children-and their three other siblings, one still a child legally-for what happened to Russia? It seems Kyril has more of a grudge to them, and thinking of his views instead of the masses, but too late as they're canonised anyway and he really can't do anything except agree to have them buried, to be honest.

Surely there is no need to exhume Nicholas and family, as their DNA profiles are on file from the  previous tests, unless the argument is that testing has become much more precise since the initial tests were done.

Ann

Correct, Ann. DNA testing has become more precise since the 1990s and because they based their findings for the two children on their DNA sequences they would do it all again with better technology. Any news of a documentary being made watching it all happen? :D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:01:04 AM by GDSophie »
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: INVESTIGATION OF THE ROMANOV REMAINS HAS BEEN REOPENED
« Reply #134 on: October 07, 2017, 10:05:19 PM »
I have given up hope that Alexei and Marie will ever be buried. The ROC cares nothing for them and the only people who have standing in this matter would not be listened to.