Author Topic: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE  (Read 10633 times)

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Offline Romanov_Fan19

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FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« on: February 24, 2016, 10:16:01 PM »
I Recently  Read  Greg King and Penny Wilsons book,  Fate of  The Romanovs  do you think  When the   Death sentence  was read out  they had the  Flight or Fight Response?

Offline Maria the Beautiful

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 07:41:53 AM »
I'm no expert on the subject, but from everything I've read about the final night the IF wouldn't have had time to form a FIGHT or FLIGHT response.  It seemed as though the shooting started shortly after the sentence was read so their immediate response most likely would have been FRIGHT. 

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 02:37:54 PM »
Or just completely stunned.

Ann

Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 02:46:41 PM »
I read in a book that Alexandra and Olga couldn't even finish crossing themselves before they were hit by the first rounds. That's how fast the guards started shooting after the death sentence was read.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 03:21:32 PM »
I think we will never know for certain because the Bolsheviks thought nothing of lying and the Family is in no position to let us know. I think that certainly they would have been surprised but with their strong Orthodox faith, probably commended themselves to God's keeping. It is my hope that they knew of little fear or pain, but we cannot be certain of this.

Offline starik

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 05:30:22 PM »
I believe Helen Rappaport in "The Last Days of the Romanovs" reports that Maria tried to get through the locked storeroom door. And that Tatiana tried to get away from Yurovsky as he approached her for the final shot, and then Olga also tried to get to her feet to get away from him.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 06:18:15 AM »
By contrast, those killed at Alapayevsk had plenty of time to react, which makes their fate yet more horrible.

Interestingly, the only one who put up any resistance was Sergei Mikhailovich.

Ann

Offline Maria Sisi

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2016, 09:31:52 AM »
By contrast, those killed at Alapayevsk had plenty of time to react, which makes their fate yet more horrible.

Interestingly, the only one who put up any resistance was Sergei Mikhailovich.

Ann

Is it possible that Sergei Mikhailovich was simply unwilling to resign himself to god's will? Like the IF Ella, Vladimir, and the Konstantinovichi boys knew it was coming but accepted their destiny and came to peace with it. They were spiritually ready to go to their creator by the time they were walking to the mine shaft. Unlike them he simply wasn't ready to accept fate.

I hope that doesn't sound offensive because I'm sure like all the IF, and victims at Alapayevsk, he was a religious man but from what I've read about him Sergei like the rest of the Mikhailovichi thought differently about a lot of stuff. They didn't seem like fatalist or as religious as the others. They seem more like people of action and ready to do anything and weren't ones to just accept anything. I think his brother in his memoirs called himself and his brothers the black sheep of the family because they were different then the rest of them in so many ways because of their upbringing far from the capital.

Offline edubs31

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2016, 09:55:10 AM »
The element of surprise, as previously mention, naturally plays a factor as well.

The Alapayevsk victims were blind folded and led to their deaths. They had some time to consider the consequences and choose a course of action; whether that be to try and run (hopeless), fight (even more hopeless), or accept and make peace with God.

The IF murders were sudden and unexpected. A parallel can be drawn to GD Michael Alexandrovich's demise along with his friend (chauffeur?). There seems to have been some panic. I'm trying to remember the details off the top but didn't Michael run in one direction as his friend was shot to death, then in his bewilderment stumble back towards his slain friend? That of course was in the middle of a wooded area not an enclosed basement. Had the IF been lined up but untied in Pig's Meadow it stands to reason that some of them would have screamed and ran rather than prayed or fought back against the guards.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 11:12:31 AM »
I think you're right.

Alexei Volkov managed to make a run for it when he and other servants were lined up to be shot. This was out in the open, and I have a feeling that it was dark at the time. Also, I imagine the Bolsheviks would not have spent a huge amount of time and effort looking for him, as they would a member of the Imperial Family.

Ann

Offline edubs31

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2016, 01:06:57 PM »
I think you're right.

Alexei Volkov managed to make a run for it when he and other servants were lined up to be shot. This was out in the open, and I have a feeling that it was dark at the time. Also, I imagine the Bolsheviks would not have spent a huge amount of time and effort looking for him, as they would a member of the Imperial Family.

Ann

Right. If someone is fleet of foot and is in the middle of a wooded area it's actually a wise calculated decision to take off and run. You can probably outrun a guard/soldier weighed down by a weapon, ammo, etc. People also tend to be terrible shots firing while they are running. And with any luck even a spray of bullet fire coming from multiple guns might either miss you or hit tree trunks rather than body parts.

I remember seeing a History Channel program ("Modern marvels" or something similar) where they had two trained shots fire with rifles at objects moving in a serpentine motion from maybe 50-meters away. Needless to say it took a while before they connected with their targets...Bit of a further distance, yes, but these guys were excellent marksmen, and that was in the middle of a field!

Perhaps there is a certain sense of "even if I managed to escape wouldn't the honorable thing have been to die at their side", or "to run and live while your loved ones are getting mowed down is cowardice". Personally speaking I don't think I could leave the others behind as helpless victims, even though staying by their side would guarantee my own death.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 04:31:12 PM »
It looks like Volkov realized what was going to happen and was still fit enough to run off. The two ladies with him Schnieder I believe could barely walk and Hendrikova may not have realized what was going to happen until too late. note these people were with a group of prisoners. I should also point out if Volkov took off through thick woods the guards may not have been able to get a clear shot at him or their bullets were either deflected or stopped by trees or branches. Believe it or not there are cases where rifle bullets have been defected by tree branches. The approaching darkness may have helped.

  As for Michael he did realize what was going to happen until the Chekists started shooting.

As for the IF they not only had no warning on what was going to happen but were trapped in a room with no way out.

Offline Romanov_Fan19

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2016, 01:20:18 PM »
Wasn't there a smaller storeroom  behind the  Cellar  ,  Does anyone  know if it locked from the outside

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2016, 06:12:15 PM »
I think the storeroom didn't have an exit.

After reading Volkovs account which I should have done before my first reply. He and the others were awakened past midnight. A guard told Hendrikova they were going to a different prison and then Moscow. and she thought they weren't going to be killed. Volkov realizing something wasn't right on the march asked a guard and the guard told him they were going to be shot he decided to run for it. he made a run when they were going through some woods around daylight and mentions falling down after the second shot was fired so the guards may have thought they killed him in part because they didn't chase after him. it could be both some of the guards and prisoners may not have been fully awake at this time. if they had been up a good part of the night.

Michael besides being taken by surprise when the guards started shooting he was most likely hit by one or more bullets and may not have been able to go very far before dying.

Offline Lochlanach

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 02:48:42 PM »
By contrast, those killed at Alapayevsk had plenty of time to react, which makes their fate yet more horrible.

Interestingly, the only one who put up any resistance was Sergei Mikhailovich.

Ann

Is it possible that Sergei Mikhailovich was simply unwilling to resign himself to god's will? Like the IF Ella, Vladimir, and the Konstantinovichi boys knew it was coming but accepted their destiny and came to peace with it. They were spiritually ready to go to their creator by the time they were walking to the mine shaft. Unlike them he simply wasn't ready to accept fate.

I hope that doesn't sound offensive because I'm sure like all the IF, and victims at Alapayevsk, he was a religious man but from what I've read about him Sergei like the rest of the Mikhailovichi thought differently about a lot of stuff. They didn't seem like fatalist or as religious as the others. They seem more like people of action and ready to do anything and weren't ones to just accept anything. I think his brother in his memoirs called himself and his brothers the black sheep of the family because they were different then the rest of them in so many ways because of their upbringing far from the capital.

 Nicholas was likely expecting the worst at some point , although after 18 months imprisonment he may have dared to entertain dreams of exile not execution. The others still had hope - OTMA said so to the cleaning ladies on the day of their deaths. 
The ones who did not die in the first volley of shots in the basement seemed to both fight and fly.... sort of ,  or at least resist as best they could by crouching in the dark corners of the basement , Marie rattling the locked door and then MAA stuggling with Ermakov and his bayonet . THEY certainly didn't go peacefully accepting their deaths (OTMA hysterical , Alexei total shock) . But it was a sudden and completely unexpected attack  and if the circumstances of their execution had been different - ie given some minutes , even hours , notice by the Bolsheviks (not their style I know) then they MIGHT have gone to their deaths stoically . Alas for OTMAA it was an extremely traumatic ending.