Author Topic: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE  (Read 10121 times)

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Offline TimM

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2017, 05:27:15 PM »
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drunk, including the group Ermakov had waiting at the burial site

And this murdering thug still has a street in Ekaterinburg named for him?  Why?  I can understand it in Soviet times, but the USSR has been gone for more than a generation now.  Why was that street not renamed?

Imagine a street in the U.S. named after Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy (both these men were mass murderers)?  I can't.  Well, the same applies here, IMO.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2017, 04:39:31 PM »
I received an email this morning from Greg King, author of FOTR:

The bit about Marie flinging herself against the storeroom doors and pounding on them, trying to get them open, was from Kudrin's 1963 statement.  So only the storeroom door at the end of the room.  And he says as soon as this was noticed Ermakov shot her - probably the wound in the thigh (given that I'm still absolutely convinced that the skeleton exhumed in 1991 was Marie's, not Anastasia's, who was only found ten years back), as he aimed beneath the smoke.  And Marie slumped to the floor (though hadn't yet suffered any fatal wounds).

I hope that helps clarify!


So Marie did try to escape the murder room and was shot in the leg, likely by Ermakov, according to Michael Medvedv-Kudrin. This is not corroborated by any of the other killers. Also, the killers had little interaction with the grand duchesses while they were alive, so I am skeptical of the specific identification.

Offline Превед

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2017, 04:15:17 PM »
Imagine a street in the U.S. named after Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy (both these men were mass murderers)?  I can't.  Well, the same applies here, IMO.

How can you make such a ridiculous comparison when the US just experienced riots (resulting in a death!) after the decision to remove a prominent public statue of a man who lived by the sword (Robert E. Lee) and used it to defend institutionalized racism? At least compare him to John Wilkes Booth, Anders Behring Breivik or others who murdered heads of state and children for their own twisted political ideas, not your average sick psycho killers, who BTW can be said to have been morbidly celebrated by American pop culture in ways that truly would have been shocking to your average Soviet citizen.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2017, 04:37:30 PM »
And this murdering thug still has a street in Ekaterinburg named for him?  Why?  I can understand it in Soviet times, but the USSR has been gone for more than a generation now.  Why was that street not renamed?

Apparently it has been renamed. See ru.wikipedia.org: Ключевская_улица_(Екатеринбург), Ключевская улица, Klyuchevskáya úlitsa (=Springs Street), Verkh-Isetsk, Yekaterinburg
История
Улица появилась не ранее 1788 года (точное время формирования неизвестно). До революции 1917 года улица носила название 3-я Ключевская. Всего Ключевских улиц было девять, все они заканчивались у торфяного болота, близ которого, возможно, находились ключи, используемые местными жителями. В 1921 году улица получила название Лассаля, в 1960-х годах переименована в улицу Ермакова в честь Петра Захаровича Ермакова — большевика, организатора боевой дружины верх-исетских рабочих в 1905 году и одного из организаторов Красной гвардии на Урале. Однако более известен Ермаков как убийца царской семьи Романовых. В 1990-х годах из-за неоднозначного восприятия личности Ермакова улица его имени была переименована в Ключевскую.

=
History
The street appeared not earlier than 1788 (the exact time of formation is unknown). Before the revolution of 1917 the street was called the 3rd Kliuchevskaya. There were nine Klyuchevskaya streets, all of them ending at a peat bog, near which, perhaps, there were springs used by local residents. In 1921, the street was named Lassalya [after the German Socialist Ferdinand Lasalle], in the 1960s it was renamed Ermakova Street in honor of Peter Zakharovich Ermakov - Bolshevik, the organizer of the fighting squad of the Upper Isetian workers in 1905 and one of the organizers of the Red Guard in the Urals. However, Ermakov is more famous as the murderer of the imperial Romanov family. In the 1990s, because of the ambiguous perception of the personality of Ermakov, the street bearing his name was renamed Klyuchevskaya.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 04:49:28 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2017, 06:28:56 PM »
(both these men were mass murderers)? 
Besides, aren't mass murderers, like those Bolshevikhs, Breivik and the current Islamistic terrorists, something else than serial killers (and sex offenders) like Bundy, Gacy and Dahmer? The Norwegian mass murderer and megalomaniac Breivik is sick and psycho in another way than those repressed homosexual sadists Gacy and Dahmer, who interestingly both had mothers of partially Scandinavian ancestry.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2017, 12:06:45 AM »
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How can you make such a ridiculous comparison when the US just experienced riots (resulting in a death!) after the decision to remove a prominent public statue of a man who lived by the sword (Robert E. Lee) and used it to defend institutionalized racism? At least compare him to John Wilkes Booth, Anders Behring Breivik or others who murdered heads of state and children for their own twisted political ideas

To me, a murderer is a murderer.  Do you think that the loved ones of his victims care about the political beliefs, or lack thereof, of said murderer? 


Offline GDSophie

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2017, 01:52:41 PM »
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How can you make such a ridiculous comparison when the US just experienced riots (resulting in a death!) after the decision to remove a prominent public statue of a man who lived by the sword (Robert E. Lee) and used it to defend institutionalized racism? At least compare him to John Wilkes Booth, Anders Behring Breivik or others who murdered heads of state and children for their own twisted political ideas

To me, a murderer is a murderer.  Do you think that the loved ones of his victims care about the political beliefs, or lack thereof, of said murderer? 



Well, serial killers like Ted Bundy murdered for fun and because they were unstable. The Bolsheviks killed for a political purpose, even if it was a horrible purpose.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Превед

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Re: FIGHT OR FLIGHT RESPONSE
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2017, 01:41:06 PM »
To me, a murderer is a murderer.  Do you think that the loved ones of his victims care about the political beliefs, or lack thereof, of said murderer?

Yes, they do is my impression. Family and friends are the most distraught when they don't get answers to the question "Why?". And it's easier to accept that they died for a higher end, fighting for their ideas and beliefs, as martyrs if you like, than as mere victims of robbers or perverts seeking satisfaction.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)