Author Topic: Unpretentious Royalty  (Read 6338 times)

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Offline TimM

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2016, 07:01:36 AM »
Ah, okay then.  So they probably knew who he really was.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2016, 07:50:08 AM »
Nineteenth-century royalty quite regularly travelled abroad under aliases, ostensibly in search of peace and quiet. However, some at least then got annoyed when they didn't get special treatment. For example, Queen Victoria used to visit the French Riviera as the Countess of Balmoral, and Edward VII went around as the Earl of Chester, when Prince of Wales, and then as the Duke of Lancaster.

There is a tale that the Kaiser spent time in the small Welsh spa town of Llanwrtydd (sp?) Wells as Count Munster, and a hotel there possesses a visitors' book ostensibly signed by him.

More recently, the current Duke of York, while still at Gordonstoun went on a French exchange under an assumed name, giving out that his father was a gentleman farmer.

Ann

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2016, 08:56:05 PM »
There is a list somewhere on either on the great war forum or the axis history forum that lists all the German princes killed in WW I. There were more than a few.

Prince Heinrich of Bavaria there is a account of his death in the book "Prelude to blitzkrieg" on the Rumanian campaign of 1916. I had to find this in my notes

Prince Friedrich Karl he was still technically commander of FA(A) 258 when killed, but he got hold of a fighter and was flying with Jasta 2 when he was shot down by Lt Pickthrone of 32 Squadron RFC. He landed near British line tried to run for it and was shot wounded and taken prisoner on 31 march 1917. he died of wounds on 6 April 1917. FA(A) Flieger Abtelung (Artillerie) Flying Unit (Artillery). Jasta fighter squadron

Offline TimM

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2016, 07:26:58 AM »
Yeah, I  would imagine their would have been quite a number of them that fought in the Great War.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2016, 02:52:39 PM »
Indeed. Obviously there were a lot more German princes than British ones. As far as I can see most of those under 30 served in the front line as junior officers, at least for part of the war. Heinrich of Bavaria, as a male-line nephew of the King of Bavaria, was by my reckoning the most senior to be killed.

On the British side, only George V's two eldest sons, and Arthur of Connaught were of military age. Arthur had been in the front line in the Boer War but spent WW1 on the staff. Adolphus of Teck briefly commanded the 2nd Life Guards at the front but spent most of the rest of the war on the sick list with digestive problems (I wonder whether he had undiagnosed porphyria). Alexander of Teck headed the Military Mission to the Belgian Army.  Otherwise there were the Battenbergs. Maurice was killed in October 1914 as a platoon commander. I don't suppose Alexander went very near the front line, and Leopold was haemophiliac. George and Louis both served at sea.

Prince and Prince Friedrich Karl of Hesse-Kassel (she was Margaret of Prussia, sister of the Kaiser) lost two sons, both in their early twenties.

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Offline Превед

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 09:37:11 AM »
Perhaps unpretentious with regard to her family's royal Nazi past, but not so much with regard to her right-wing politics!

One of the vice-presidents of the new German radical right, anti-immigration political party Alternative für Deutschland is Beatrix von Storch née Herzogin von Oldenburg, i.e. Duchess of Oldenburg! She is the granddaughter of two prominent Nazis: Nicholaus, the last Hereditary Grand Duke of Oldenburg and SA-Standartenführer, and Count Johann Ludwig Schwerin von Krosigk, who was German Minister of Finances from 1932 and kept on by Hitler untill the end in 1945.

While I sympathize with much of the party's radical politics (except the banning of mosques, I'd much rather just have the state stop funding all religions and let people worship whatever they want), I must say I'm surprised they have elected a person with such a lineage to such a a high post. Nazis disgust me as much as Islamists. But then, should her grandparents' actions be held against her, even if she espouses some (not all!) of the same right-wing ideas?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:06:52 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 09:48:28 AM »
Beatrix von Storch née Herzogin von Oldenburg and her husband Sven von Storch, whose family was dispossed of their estates in Mecklenburg after the war, have founded a network called Göttinger Kreis – Studenten für den Rechtsstaat e. V. (Circle of Göttingen - Students in favour of a state based on the rule of law), which works in favour of the dispossessed owners in the former Soviet Zone of Occupation receiving compensation. (Currently only those dispossessed by a German regime, the Nazis or the DDR, are eligible for compensation in Germany.)

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 09:56:20 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 09:52:34 AM »
It would be rather unfair to condemn Beatrix von Storch for her grandparents' actions, which she was not in a position to influence and quite possibly took place before she was born.

Ann

Offline Превед

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 09:59:44 AM »
It would be rather unfair to condemn Beatrix von Storch for her grandparents' actions, which she was not in a position to influence and quite possibly took place before she was born.

Yes, rather unfair, but also rather unwise for her party to elect her as of their leaders!
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2016, 10:23:22 AM »
The village where she grew up, Kisdorf in Holstein, which is just 25 km from Rohlfshagen, where her distant Oldenburg relative Peter III of Russia was born, had a former Nazi of the Waffen SS as mayor untill 1994! Rural eastern Holstein (the so-called Grafenecke - Counts' Corner), with its large agricultural and aristocratic estates  does have a certain brown flavour....

Other rural, agricultural areas of Germany can be equally reactionary (Münsterland / Westphalia, some areas of Bavaria), but in those area it's Catholic reactionism, which is different in flavour. East Holstein is probably one of the few areas where pure, Protestant, Prussian reactionism still perseveres.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:33:47 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2016, 02:05:06 PM »
The Duke of Westminister won fame in WW I commanding armored cars in the desert.

There are two German Princes who became high scoring night fighter pilots during WW II. There is a book on them called the Princes of Darkness.

Prince Heinrich Sayn-Wittgenstein
Prince Egmont Lippe-Wessenfeld

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2016, 02:09:59 PM »
You can't really blame people for actions of their grandparents as in communist countries. The problem with Germany is you don't have to look far to find someone in most peoples families who was a Nazi.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2016, 03:50:11 PM »
Queen Paola of Belgium's father Fulco Ruffo Di Caldbria was a Italian ace of WW I

General Alexander Orlov, a good friend of Nicholas and Alexandra's had a son Ivan A Orlov who was a Russian ace in WW I. Nicholas mentions him in one of his letters as "Little Ivan Orlov".

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Unpretentious Royalty
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2016, 07:24:55 PM »
In looking through Austria-Hungary's last war 1914-1918 online it seems most of the KUKs army commander include many Archdukes, princes, Counts, Barons and Vons. The heir Archduke karl did command a Corps during the Austrian Asaigo offensive AKA the Strafexpedition which started on 15 may 1916.

At the start of WW I the Britsh admiralty started impressing yachts to use as patrol vessels. One was owned by a duchess she wanted to volunteer to serve on it. the admiralty replied to her Grace the  RN did not commission women so she really can't serve.

Since we also talked about families one wonders what Putin's father did when he was in the Cheka.