Author Topic: Attempts of European royal families to save the Imperial family?  (Read 25392 times)

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Attempts of European royal families to save the Imperial family?
« Reply #150 on: October 12, 2017, 02:38:03 AM »
Interesting about Haakon. I wonder why he proposed to send a warship rather than offer to receive the family at the Norwegian border (Norway has a land frontier with Russia - did it then?). Perhaps the reason was that the  transport arrangements would be simpler - as a neutral a Norwegian ship could go to Kronstadt, from which it was a short road journey to Tsarskoye-Selo. The border area between Russia and Norway is pretty remote, and would have been more remote then - when Murmansk was connected to St Petersburg by only a single-track railway.

These are just musings - I've probably answered my own question.

Obviously, it would have been far easier to get the family to Norway than to Spain, in purely practical terms. Going to Spain would have meant either a long and circuitous voyage through U-boat waters, plus minefields,  or a land journey crossing enemy territory (which Nicholas is unlikely to have agreed to).

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Offline Превед

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Re: Attempts of European royal families to save the Imperial family?
« Reply #151 on: October 13, 2017, 05:15:04 AM »
Interesting about Haakon. I wonder why he proposed to send a warship rather than offer to receive the family at the Norwegian border (Norway has a land frontier with Russia - did it then?).

Norway did share a 196 km long border with the Russian Empire, but with no railway and hardly any road crossings. (I doubt there were roads at all on the Russian side leading to the then border crossing at Skafferhullet / Skafferholet between Borisoglebskiy on the Russian side and Kirkenes on the Norwegian side, a little to the west of the present border crossing at Storskog. Much of the border is in rivers and lakes and there was no effective border control untill after WW2.) Probably impenetrable with a motor vehicle in the snowy, rainy and thawing seasons. Sleighs (with horses or reindeers) could be an option during winter. Trains or roads through Finland or boat from Romanov-na-Murmane (now: Murmansk) to Norway would be more practical options.

From 1920 to WW2 Norway and the Soviet Union did not share a border, because the Pechenga area was Finnish. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93Russia_border. BTW a unique pidgin language, Russenorsk (Russo-Norwegian), unique in giving equal status to the two source languages, was the result of nearly two centuries of trading across this border.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 05:22:50 AM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,
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Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и березы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Attempts of European royal families to save the Imperial family?
« Reply #152 on: October 13, 2017, 06:45:53 PM »
Based on accounts I have read of combat in the Artic in WW II the roads from Murmansk to Norway are few and not very good too put it mildly. Summertime it would be hard going even on horseback forget about motor vehicles. Winter time horse drawn sleighs are  the only way to go. A Norwegian ship could have picked up the IF at Murmansk and taken them to a Port in Norway with few problems. The problem is getting the IF to Murmansk. There is no way the Petrograd Soviet or the Provisional government would let that happen.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Attempts of European royal families to save the Imperial family?
« Reply #153 on: October 14, 2017, 02:13:59 AM »
That is pretty much what I thought.

Kronstadt would be better than Murmansk in terms of getting the family to the ship, but the Baltic Fleet was very militant, and their Soviet would doubtless put two and two together if a Norwegian warship appeared.

Geographically, was it possible to get from Tsarskoye Selo to Kronstadt without going through St Petersburg?

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Attempts of European royal families to save the Imperial family?
« Reply #154 on: October 21, 2017, 09:20:10 PM »
Getting from TS to Kronstadt without going via Petrograd would be no problem TS is to the south and Kronstadt is to the West of Petrograd. If you find a map of the area there are a number of roads you could take to the coast and take ship to Kronstadt.