Author Topic: Schleswig-Holstein wars  (Read 17333 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Schleswig-Holstein wars
« on: January 24, 2005, 12:04:05 AM »
Sounds good to me!  :)  This thing actually makes my head spin. I think it was this situation that caused a British minister to say only 3 people had really understood it--Prince Albert who was dead, someone in Germany (a professor?) who had gone mad and himself and he had forgotten all of it! I tend to probably side a little more with the deposed Duke (Christian's brother and Dona's father) because he really got the shaft in the deal, was basically caught between the two countries and ended up pretty poor and humiliated. He was the one Fritz & Vicky backed as they were friends with 'poor good Fritz Holstein'.
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Offline kmerov

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2005, 01:47:52 PM »
It is a very hard an complex issue to discuss but I will try anyway!
I tend to think that the Danish government and people were wrong in assuming that the Duchies belonged to them.They had a common sovereign, the king of Denmark also being Duke of Schleswig-Holstein. This happend because King Christian I way back in the 15th century was elected King of Denmark an separetelly elected Duke of Shleswig-Holstein after his uncle. He promised that the Duchies forever would be united for all times, and that Schleswig never became a part of Denmark...so far so good!
When it became clear in the 1830-, that there was a great posibility that the older danish line of Oldenburg would die out in the male line, thats when the problem started.
The danish throne would then pass to a female line of the family, (later) Queen Louises mother, Princess Charlotte.
The duchies of SH didnt have female succession, so the next in line there, according to many people, where the eldest line of the younger oldenburg line, The House of Schleswig-Holstein- Sonderburg-Augustenburg. The Danish kings didn't want this to happend, so they violated the original saying, and tried to bring the more Danish minded Schleswig closer to Denmark, and ignoring the Augustenburgs claims.
This caused many other problems(to long to discuss all the events in detail ;)), such as the first war of 1848-1850. The augustenburg family where exiled, and eventually Christian was elected as future king. when he became king he was forced by the public to sign the new constitution of Dk, wich ment that S would become a part of Denmark.
I think this was wrong, and the overall people of SH didnt want this to happend. The wanted to be independent and together...
I think that the Danish people of that time, including the royal family where ruled more by their emotions then what was right.
As far as Germanies concern, they to violated the rights of SH, but they could only intervene because the Danish goverment broke the international deals.
SH, should have become an independent state( as they also where under the danish dukes!), and the head of the country should be chosen by the people.
Just my humble say in this!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by kmerov »

Offline Paul

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2005, 08:45:55 PM »
Thank you, sincerely.

You've probably given the most understandable explanation, of the Schlesvig-Holstein Question, ever written.

Quote
It is a very hard an complex issue to discuss but i will try anyway!

The only real possession you'll ever have is your character.
Tom Wolfe
US author & journalist (1931 - )

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2005, 01:24:45 AM »
A cartoon from the times illustrating the domestic turbulence the S-H question caused within the royal family

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Offline kmerov

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2005, 04:21:47 PM »
Thank you very much, Paul.
It is as stated a difficult issue to discuss or try to explain!

I once saw a night-pot that had the Augustenborg-family depicted in the bottom! I think it was made in the 1850- or60. Not a popular family.
It was propably very clever of the duke to accept the money offerd to him, as there was no chance of him getting his danish lands and properties back!

Offline kmerov

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2006, 03:13:04 PM »
A night-pot with the picture of the Duke of Augustenborg and his brother from after 1848. Under the picture is a text, saying they are traitors, and that you therefore can urinate on them...I have translated this as nicely as possible...  ;D

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2006, 11:56:43 PM »
And we think modern politics are nasty!  :o
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 12:39:10 AM »
Oh, cool night-pot! ;D

Offline Eugenie_of_Montijo

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 07:48:08 AM »
Im interesting about this episode, the war of the danish against prussians and austrians for the famous dukedoms...It was, I suppose, a very rough time for Christian, Louise and all their children. I know that Alix, married to Bertie, suffered a lot thinking about the prussians at Jutlandia, and more and more because she felt support from british people and press but not from british governement...But Im interesting about the reaction of young Dagmar, who lived with the parents because she was only engaged to Nixa of Rusia.

Can anyone help me?

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 06:42:07 PM »
Minnie loathed Prussia and most things German throughout her life.  

Offline Zanthia

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2006, 05:38:45 AM »
She did indeed. When she became empress, it was forbidden to speak german in her home. Alix and Minny often mentioned Berlin as "that robber's nest", in their letters to each other.
Their father was also very sensitive about the subject. Once, when he had to travel by train through his old dukedoms, he ordered the curtains drawned all the way.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Zanthia »
Of Alix: "I was raised in an age of beautiful women, and the two most beautiful was the Empress Elisabeth of Austria and my own mother"  George V

"We've invited all the beautiful women we know, but the Princess of Wales in the most beautiful of them all"  Bertie

Offline royal_netherlands

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2006, 06:23:52 AM »
Thank you all fore the info I didnt knew. :)

   Thank you

     royal netherlands


Offline Eugenie_of_Montijo

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2006, 07:10:02 PM »
Thank you very much! ;)

The book of Coryne Hall "Little Mother of Russia" is coming to Spain...and I hope it will be in my hands the next week, so Im sure I will increase my knowledge about the life and times of Minnie. But all that you relates here is a source of information and pleasure for me.


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2006, 02:22:00 AM »
Minnie was an interesting figure. But Spain also get interesting dowagers like Maria Cristina, and fasinating figures like La Chata, Ena and Baby Bee...All in Spanish too.  ;D

Offline Eugenie_of_Montijo

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Re: Schleswig-Holstein wars
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2006, 03:37:46 AM »
Quote
Minnie was an interesting figure. But Spain also get interesting dowagers like Maria Cristina, and fasinating figures like La Chata, Ena and Baby Bee...All in Spanish too. ;D


Isabel, La Chata, was very loved at her time, in the same way that her cousin and later sister-in-law queen Mercedes. I always think that the dowager queen Maria Cristina was respected, but not very loved at her time... Ena, my poor Ena, was tragic.