Author Topic: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm  (Read 3021 times)

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Offline Jeremiah

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2017, 11:53:58 AM »
Here are some privately held letters - which I have been given permission to share these extracts of here

All this discussion is based on the fact that those letters are authentic. Do they really exist?

Offline Bambi

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 02:39:41 PM »
I've got one more letter I didn't share before.

March 30, 1878
My Darling Willy,
I shall try to write a love letter as you write me, since I did say yes – it shall be my first, I feel very shy about it, but I do love you so very much and I want you to know it.
Don’t call yourself a cripple or call your arm useless, you can do so many things you used to say you would never be able to do. You climbed that tree; you can play the piano very well now. I don’t want you to feel how you said you do in that last letter. Your arm is NOT useless, and I could not love you better than I do if you had two FULLY capable arms. It – I do not know how to say what I want to say in a letter – but I must try – your arm and hand are beautiful in my eyes. I want to help you and I don’t want you to ever feel what you said in your last letter, it makes me cry.
I must say again – your arm and hand are Beautiful in my eyes; it is Very good at certain things.
I kiss you, your arm, and where you liked it best,
Your Ella who loves you dearly.

Wow! That is very interesting. From this letter, it appears that she certainly returned his affection, which makes one wonder as to why she ultimately rejected him not long afterwards. Perhaps it was nothing more than her relishing his affection and enjoying the knowledge of being loved by another, rather than actually reciprocating his affection to its full extent. And now for the quote below...

Here are some privately held letters - which I have been given permission to share these extracts of here

All this discussion is based on the fact that those letters are authentic. Do they really exist?

This is exactly what I was thinking too. Are the letters authentic? If so, why have they not been spoken of until now?

If they are indeed authentic, one of the reasons I would consider them valuable is because they give us access to the more natural, human side of Ella, though she may have only been a young adolescent at the time. I have always felt that it's easy to look at Ella but difficult to actually see her, which is why I think her correspondence is so valuable because it gives us access to the real her. Previously unreleased excerpts and letters are always a delight, but naturally my first instinct is also to question the authenticity.
“If I were dead and buried and I heard your voice, beneath the sod my heart of dust would still rejoice" - Dalton Trumbo.

Offline Bambi

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 05:18:23 PM »
It just occurred to me, assuming that all of these letters are authentic, Ella's letter on 30 March 1878 is very different - that is, her style of writing - to her other letters to Wilhelm before and after that date. Has anybody else noticed? The others are shorter and more basic and reserved, whereas the 30/03/1978 letter is longer and much more intense and romantic in nature. There is a drastic difference.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:23:21 PM by Bambi »
“If I were dead and buried and I heard your voice, beneath the sod my heart of dust would still rejoice" - Dalton Trumbo.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2017, 03:48:53 AM »
If the letters are authentic, it seems as though Ella is replying to a letter from Wilhelm. Where might that be?

Ann

Offline Bambi

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 05:27:22 AM »
If the letters are authentic, it seems as though Ella is replying to a letter from Wilhelm. Where might that be?

Ann

It's said that he wrote many love letters and poems to her, so I assume she was flattered and wanted to return the favour. Whatever he may have written in this letter that Ella is supposedly replying to and wherever it may be, he obviously wrote about how distressed he was that he had a bad arm and/or hand.

This may sound a little silly, but does Ella's letters suggest to anyone that she may have engaged in some physical contact with Wilhelm? I don't mean going as far as having relations with him (she was, after all, 13 years and 4 months old at the time this letter is supposed to have been written), but perhaps some other forms of romantic physical contact (embracing, caressing, kissing on the lips, etc)?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:29:27 AM by Bambi »
“If I were dead and buried and I heard your voice, beneath the sod my heart of dust would still rejoice" - Dalton Trumbo.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 12:48:53 PM »
I'd imagine that kissing and embracing was as far as they would get. Even that would be daring by the standards of the time.

Ann

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2017, 03:04:50 PM »
Ella's letter on 30 March 1878 is very different - that is, her style of writing - to her other letters to Wilhelm before and after that date. Has anybody else noticed?

I would think that someone is just "building up a case" here. Is it just coincidental that this "new letter" appeared just when the interest on the subject started growing -a whole year after the first post?

My opinion is that these letters -and especially the last one- is just not Ella. Maybe she did change drastically when she grew up. I don't know. I would be happy to be sure if these letters are real. But comparing them to how we know Ella, she is very different there:

I kiss you, your arm, and where you liked it best,
.

I think (maybe I'm wrong) that she would faint even just at the thought of writing something like that -whatever that might have meant.

So, I'm wondering:

I've got one more letter I didn't share before.

Why now all of the sudden??

Offline GDSophie

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 04:35:11 PM »
Ella's letter on 30 March 1878 is very different - that is, her style of writing - to her other letters to Wilhelm before and after that date. Has anybody else noticed?

I would think that someone is just "building up a case" here. Is it just coincidental that this "new letter" appeared just when the interest on the subject started growing -a whole year after the first post?

My opinion is that these letters -and especially the last one- is just not Ella. Maybe she did change drastically when she grew up. I don't know. I would be happy to be sure if these letters are real. But comparing them to how we know Ella, she is very different there:

I kiss you, your arm, and where you liked it best,
.

I think (maybe I'm wrong) that she would faint even just at the thought of writing something like that -whatever that might have meant.

So, I'm wondering:

I've got one more letter I didn't share before.

Why now all of the sudden??

I believe Missy is writing a book and she's been given access to new material to help write it?

New pictures and letters turn up all the time; in March this year the original handwritten Act of Independence of Lithuania was found in Berlin, so anything can happen! But can you, Missy, take pictures of said letters? If you could share what they said with us, then I'm sure you can share the actual papers.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Queen_Missy

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 07:53:14 PM »
Sorry cannot share more at this time. The letters are legitimate as far as I know.

Offline Bambi

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 08:01:33 PM »
Here are some privately held letters - which I have been given permission to share these extracts of here - from Queen Victoria to Vicky (Crown Princess of Prussia/later Empress Frederick). They are kept together as if about the same subject.

September 1878
Willy’s visit has gone well – that subject was not mentioned at all until the last day (day before he left), when he asked to see me privately and confessed everything that happened and seemed overcome and burst into tears. He said he did not know how he would face Alice and Louis at the maneuvers next month. I only bring this up again because I wished you to know how he felt about it all and that he felt what he had done was wrong and that he understood that he himself had quite spoiled his chances (which may – later - have been reconsidered otherwise) since you said he acted so strange and cold and stony about it all to both of you when you attempted to speak to him about it.

Now that Queen_Missy posted Ella's "love letter" to Wilhelm from March 1878, I've begun to have suspicions over what Queen Victoria was truly referring to in her letter from September 1878. One certainly gets the impression from these letters that Ella responded to Wilhelm's affection. I originally thought that it was most probable that QV was referring to an incident between Wilhelm and Ella where he would have declared his love and proposed to her, but now I am having second thoughts. Until September 1878, it appears that Wilhelm had already made his love for Ella very clear to her, so much so that Ella - again, if the letter is authentic - wanted to make her first attempt at writing her first love letter to him, too. She may have given Wilhelm the impression that she reciprocated his love (and maybe she truly did, albeit a lesser extent than his) and he, knowing that he loved her, sincerely believed that they had a future together as a married couple. Why should he have then, as QV stated, "spoiled his chances which may - later - have been reconsidered otherwise"? I don't see how him vocally declaring his love or proposing to her should "spoil his chances". Being two months shy of her fourteenth birthday at the time, she was certainly still too young to jump into marriage, but a declaration of love and proposal surely wouldn't "spoil his chances". Ella, after all, was already aware of his love and responding to his affection, with QV even suggesting that Ella could indeed have happily agreed to becoming his wife one day. All of this makes me wonder if he went beyond just expressing his love and proposing, doing something in particular that would cause a 180 degree change of heart and mind on Ella's part.
“If I were dead and buried and I heard your voice, beneath the sod my heart of dust would still rejoice" - Dalton Trumbo.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 02:16:34 AM »
The match between Wilhelm's parents was agreed when Victoria was 14 and Friedrich 24, and they married when she was 17 (barely), so not quite 14 would not be too young for an 'understanding'. However, Victoria's marriage was an affair of state, unlike a youthful romance between Wilhelm and Ella. Some years later Queen Victoria had reservations about a marriage between Irene and Heinrich, even though Irene was, I think, at least in her late teens - much more a marriageable age - when they fell in love.

I agree with GD Sophie that the March letter just does not sound like Ella - to me it reads like something from a modern teenager!

Ann

Offline Bambi

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2017, 03:18:11 AM »
The match between Wilhelm's parents was agreed when Victoria was 14 and Friedrich 24, and they married when she was 17 (barely), so not quite 14 would not be too young for an 'understanding'. However, Victoria's marriage was an affair of state, unlike a youthful romance between Wilhelm and Ella. Some years later Queen Victoria had reservations about a marriage between Irene and Heinrich, even though Irene was, I think, at least in her late teens - much more a marriageable age - when they fell in love.

I agree with GD Sophie that the March letter just does not sound like Ella - to me it reads like something from a modern teenager!

Ann

Interesting. I didn't know that. I would have still imagined 13/14 as being too young. Interesting.  :)

I actually wouldn't be too surprised if we were to discover that Ella truly was the author of the March "love letter". I just find it peculiar because it differs from her other alleged letters - a) it is a little longer with more emotions involved and b) from a general point of view, it goes against the whole "Wilhelm loved Ella but Ella didn't love Wilhelm" data.
“If I were dead and buried and I heard your voice, beneath the sod my heart of dust would still rejoice" - Dalton Trumbo.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Ella and Wilhelm
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2017, 06:07:27 AM »
Quote
I actually wouldn't be too surprised if we were to discover that Ella truly was the author of the March "love letter". I just find it peculiar because it differs from her other alleged letters - a) it is a little longer with more emotions involved and b) from a general point of view, it goes against the whole "Wilhelm loved Ella but Ella didn't love Wilhelm" data.

I think it seems reasonably plausible that Ella would have responded more strongly to Wilhelm revealing a more vulnerable side.  Given her youth, I can see that having adults stamping firmly on these sentimental passages, combined with really cataclysmic family events later on in the year, would have distanced Ella from these feelings, and both her own grieving and Queen Victoria's encompassing level of mourning might have made any romantic recollections seem inappropriate.  If her sentiments changed, which would have been very natural at that age, she herself could have thought she had just been caught up in the moment and had not really cared for Wilhelm - especially as her feelings for Sergei would have appeared much greater and more adult in comparison.