Author Topic: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella  (Read 2285 times)

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Offline Queen_Missy

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NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« on: September 30, 2016, 03:45:53 PM »
Here are some privately held letters - which I have been given permission to share these extracts of here - from Queen Victoria to Vicky (Crown Princess of Prussia/later Empress Frederick). They are kept together as if about the same subject.

September 1878
Willy’s visit has gone well – that subject was not mentioned at all until the last day (day before he left), when he asked to see me privately and confessed everything that happened and seemed overcome and burst into tears. He said he did not know how he would face Alice and Louis at the maneuvers next month. I only bring this up again because I wished you to know how he felt about it all and that he felt what he had done was wrong and that he understood that he himself had quite spoiled his chances (which may – later - have been reconsidered otherwise) since you said he acted so strange and cold and stony about it all to both of you when you attempted to speak to him about it.

December 2 1878
I heard from Princess C of H that all has gone quite well and that E had quite an easy time and feels quite strong. She said everything lasted only about 4 hours and that it is 2. But E has not been told of her poor little sister’s death. I just received poor A’s telegram – distressed that she could not be with E during this time. You will no doubt have heard from them both before you receive this.

Offline joellegirl

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2016, 07:18:52 PM »
Interesting. What did Willy do? Is this about him asking Ella to marry him, or something else? Hope to see more of the letters.

Offline Queen_Missy

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2016, 01:40:50 AM »
If you read the second letter, it sounds very like other letters Queen Victoria wrote about births - "had a very easy time"... "Only lasted about 4 hours" etc. - but the owner of the letters (who's name I am not allowed to disclose at this time) said this letter was about Ella. When I read it it sounds like it could be - "Princess C of H" would be Ludwig IV's mother - E would be Ella - "Poor A" "distressed that she could not be with E during this time" would be Alice - it is at the end of 1878 when the rest of the family was sick - Ella hadn't been told of May "her little sister"'s death. "it is 2" - Twins??

 :o Could it be that... Wilhelm got Ella pregnant when she was 13?!

Offline joellegirl

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2016, 09:01:08 AM »
 Wow! Anything is possible.  First,can it be proven these letters are really written by Queen Victoria? I do recall that during the time Alice's family was sick, that Ella was sent away as she was the only one who did not catch it. I think Ernst was too but he came down with it an came back home.. Perhaps Ella was already away...even before the sickness..
I think there was more to the Willy/Ella relationship that most authors and royal fans like to believe. They think it was always one sided on Willy's part, but I think that wasn't the case.We only see some letters, and parts of letters. There is so much we do not know about. I am assuming because of Ella being so young they did not allow the marriage,(not just the hemophilia) and just the shock of an out of wedlock pregnancy and having to hide it. This could be part  of all the mixed feelings about Willy from his family.
If she did give birth, what happened to the baby (babies)? Did they die, were they taken away and adopted out?  Sad as Ella never did (as far as we know) have any more children.
I am one of the  very few sympathetic to Willy throughout his life,(don't agree with everything but much of the negativity  is overblown)  Most of the letters we see   are edited,many are missing, and one does now know every detail behind opinions and feelings.There is always more to the story and we were not there.
What I am getting at, is this (if it really even happened) could be  one of the reasons behind all the negativity towards Williy from Ella herself, sister Alix and many in the family.Perhaps this is when Willy proposed to her and was rejected. He seemed to have never forgotten his first love, and if a pregnancy happened  it could have been one of the many things that led to how his personality was , having to deal with it and hide it and try to forget.
They were just human beings. Wasn't a good thing to happen, if it did of course.
If it is true, it sure was hidden very well all these years, or just not paid attention to .
This is all very interesting to ponder.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 11:59:40 AM »
An interesting idea, but it seems rather unlikely that Wilhelm could have had the opportunity to get Ella pregnant when he was 19 and she 13. It seems rather more likely that he blurted out a marriage proposal which was not well received.

The language of the second letter is, however interesting, though Ella saying 'it is 2', doesn't really sound like reporting the birth of twins, as Queen Victoria would presumably have known definitely whether it was '2' or not. Could it have been something rather more mundane like removal of wisdom teeth (first example that came into my head)?

Ann

Offline Queen_Missy

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 12:45:37 PM »
(Answering Joellegirl when I say "you" etc.)

Yes, when the family was sick, Ella was sent away to stay with her German grandmother “Princess C of H”.

You say you think there was more to the Willy/Ella relationship. I do too. I’ve been researching it a good deal lately. I too think it was not one-sided. I also saw a letter from when Ella was 10 – it seemed Vicky was not always completely against it – it was from when Willy first said he was in love with Ella and Vicky was writing to the Queen and she said “I think she likes him – as a girl of her age might – and I suppose I should be a just judge of that.” Vicky was 10 when Fritz was at the Great Exhibition etc.

Yes, there is much we don’t know of. But the information exists, but is not allowed to be released yet. So many closed archives still.
I have read a lot about Wilhelm and am certainly more sympathetic than I used to be…

You said “this could be one of the reasons behind all the negativity towards Willy from Ella herself” etc.

I had asked elsewhere on the forums: “About Ella and Wilhelm II - has anyone seen any letters she wrote about him?? Everyone seems to say that she did not return his feelings at all - but have we seen anything FROM her?”

Is there really much negativity from her? I know about Alix and others. But from things I’ve read and really tried to see the meaning behind – and the things I’ve seen in this collection that are not released yet – it seems she may have really loved him all her life. I’m not saying she approved of things he did.

I think it was when Willy proposed to her.

Another letter I found interesting was this: from John Rohl’s “Young Wilhelm”, page 874
‘At the end of 1879 the Crown Prince declared that he was “very shocked” to discover that Charlotte knew everything about the “previous events in Darmstadt.” In a conversation with her about Ella and Alice it had become clear to him, he wrote to the Crown Princess, that “Charlotte know about all those earlier details which gave us both so many wretched hours, that she had even read letters which she said were in Lenchen's possession. I don't yet know exactly how she came by all she knows, but it seems that, apart from what you told her, she was also given further details in England! I made her promise faithfully to keep this knowledge to herself, and never to let a word of it pass her lips.’

Knowing Charley’s reputation who knows what she knew…

And one other thing. In the documentary Hosts of White Duchesses - on Frozentears http://www.frozentears.org/Sasha/Spikes/White.Duchesses.01.m4v
23:30-50 - is that Ella and Wilhelm?

Offline joellegirl

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 09:46:44 PM »
You're right, I don't think we have heard from Ella much on the subject  in letters..yet anyway!. Everyone assumes she did not return his feelings, but I don't think he would have proposed marriage to her if   nothing  was ever there.
In the film, do you mean the lady Willy appears to be leaning down to talk too? Hard to tell, and I don't understand the language(narration). I have the book Young Wilhelm by John Rohl, and looked at that page. Interesting.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 10:03:52 PM by joellegirl »

Offline Queen_Missy

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2016, 10:07:48 AM »
When I first saw that film I thought the lady who he was leading to a seat and then leaning down to talk to was Alix - but then I watched Her more closely - she's talking very animatedly and when he comes back over and leans toward her it looks like she probably called him over. I asked already what was being said and it's not really about that particular film - just reading from Nicholas II's diary. I thought it probably wasn't Alix after a while and just how he's doting over her - that's what it looks like to me - made me think it was probably Ella.

Have you ever seen this picture of Ella? http://oldsp.ru/old/upload/photos/3/2/a/800_32a6158c82c4924448c26b73c9dadbbd.jpg

Offline joellegirl

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2016, 05:01:04 PM »
I have never seen that picture of Ella. Almost thought it was Alix for a moment. The boy looks like one of Willy and Dona's sons, though I am not sure what year this picture was taken.

Offline Queen_Missy

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2016, 10:24:07 PM »
That picture is taken in 1908. The boy is Dickie of Battenberg - Victoria and Louis of Battenberg's youngest son.

Doesn't Ella look... different in that picture? I thought it could be Alix too at first - but I thought that because she looks pregnant.

Offline joellegirl

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 02:08:51 PM »
It's hard to say, with all the clothes she has on.
Are there any more excerpts you are able to share?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 11:16:48 AM »
That picture is taken in 1908. The boy is Dickie of Battenberg - Victoria and Louis of Battenberg's youngest son.

Doesn't Ella look... different in that picture? I thought it could be Alix too at first - but I thought that because she looks pregnant.

That's Grand Duchess Elizaveta, 1908 year in, summer in Peterhof. There are more pictures from the event. And of course she is not pregnant, she is not Alix, just an angle of the photo and heavy clothes.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2017, 06:40:24 AM »
Is she in mourning? That would explain the clothes.

Ann

Offline JGP

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 11:51:18 PM »
Is she in mourning? That would explain the clothes. Ann

Didn't she always wear mourning clothes after the death of her husband in 1905 until she donned a nun's habit?

That picture is taken in 1908. The boy is Dickie of Battenberg - Victoria and Louis of Battenberg's youngest son.

Doesn't Ella look... different in that picture? I thought it could be Alix too at first - but I thought that because she looks pregnant.

That's Grand Duchess Elizaveta, 1908 year in, summer in Peterhof. There are more pictures from the event. And of course she is not pregnant, she is not Alix, just an angle of the photo and heavy clothes.


Svetabel, Is the event you refer to the wedding of Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna and Prince Wilhelm of Sweden in May of 1908?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: NEW LETTERS about Wilhelm II and Ella
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 02:19:12 AM »
Is she in mourning? That would explain the clothes.

Ann

Yes, she is. The grey and white nun habit would appear in 1909.