Author Topic: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?  (Read 1436 times)

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Offline GDSophie

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A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« on: September 10, 2017, 04:41:56 AM »
I was thinking about writing a story with Alexandra relenting and marrying Prince Albert per her grandmother's request in 1889, giving them time to have one/two children before his death in 1891. Nicholas, heartbroken, agrees to marry another Princess (undecided as of late) in 1890 and both have a number of children.

This changes England and Russia's history entirely: with an heir from Albert, George does not become King in 1910. Albert's son/daughter becomes King/Queen as they are considered old enough (19 in 1910) to sit on the throne. Alexandra doesn't have a chance at even becoming Queen, so will she be Dowager Queen or Princess?

This also changes World War I for them. Will England get involved or will the new monarch refuse to participate even with the government knocking on their door? And if the Romanovs see themselves removed from their throne, will Alexandra step in and demand them safety in England?

In Russia, Nicholas will now have a few years to learn of his duties per Alexander III's request 'he's married now so he has too buck up (grow up, that means)'. The events at the Coronation for the real Nicholas and Alexandra may not happen but Bloody Sunday will, however Nicholas will have a different reaction to the one we know off. Rasputin has no contact with the Imperial family. The 1905 Revolution will not happen either but will the 1917 Revolution occur? It all depends on World War I and how Nicholas handles it.

Because Nicholas named four of his children-Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Alexei-his made up children will have the same names. Two of his children-who we know as Olga and Maria-will not have their looks changed, except a few features here and there which they got from their mother but they probably won't have the same names. Tatiana and Alexei will look entirely different because their looks came from their mother's side, and a daughter with the name 'Anastasia' may not even exist in this AU. (As she was named for Princess Anastasia of Montenegro by her mother?)

Names for Alexandra and Albert's child/ren have been undecided as of yet, but I'm brainstorming.

Nicholas and unknown Princess' children as of order:
- Alexei, 1891. Unlike the Alexei we know, he does not suffer from haemophilia and isn't 13. At the start of the story-excluding the Prologue-he is 18 in 1909 when the story begins (date may change though). He takes after his mother's side like the real Alexei, so features are unknown of this late.
- Olga, 1893. 16 in 1909. Takes after father's side with similar features to the Olga we know.
- Tatiana, 1895. 14 in 1909. Takes after her mother's side.
- Unnamed son, 1897. 12 in 1909.
- Maria, 1899. 10 in 1909. Takes after father's side and keeps her saucers because I cannot erase them from her.
- Anastasia (name may be changed?), 1901. 8 in 1909. Takes after her mother's side.
- Unnamed son, 1903. 6 in 1909.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline TimM

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 11:32:50 AM »
Sounds interest.  Go for it!

Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 12:25:12 PM »
Sounds interest.  Go for it!

I'm trying to decide on a Princess to be Nicholas' new bride, but it's hard to find one near his age that won't effect another country. My first option was Missy or Marie of Romania but I don't want to mess around with Romanian royalty, I'm already doing that to England and Russia's.

I'm accepting all the help I can get! Especially a title to this.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline TimM

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2017, 06:07:45 PM »
Quote
I'm trying to decide on a Princess to be Nicholas' new bride, but it's hard to find one near his age that won't effect another country. My first option was Missy or Marie of Romania but I don't want to mess around with Romanian royalty, I'm already doing that to England and Russia's.

This clearly takes place in an alternate reality, so it really doesn't matter which member of Royalty that you bring in, IMO.

Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2017, 06:34:00 PM »
Quote
I'm trying to decide on a Princess to be Nicholas' new bride, but it's hard to find one near his age that won't effect another country. My first option was Missy or Marie of Romania but I don't want to mess around with Romanian royalty, I'm already doing that to England and Russia's.

This clearly takes place in an alternate reality, so it really doesn't matter which member of Royalty that you bring in, IMO.

I want to keep most of the royal families in Europe like they are in real life. I wish there was a list of female royals unmarried and around Nicholas' age in 1890 I can pick from.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 10:56:20 AM »
Interesting idea.

Two ladies under consideration as brides for Nicholas were Helene of Orleans (1871-1951), who subsequently married the Duke of Aosta, a cousin of Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy, and Margaret of Prussia (1872-1954), youngest sister of the Kaiser, who married Prince Friedrich Karl of Hesse.

Both these gentlemen were well away from inheriting thrones, so your having Nicholas marry either Helene or Margaret would not create major complications with other royal families.

Otherwise, I thought of a daughter of either Frederik VIII of Denmark or George I of Greece, but all of them were Nicholas's first cousins, so putting them within the prohibited degrees of the Orthodox Church.

Had Alexandra married Prince Albert Victor, she would have been HRH the Duchess of Clarence. Had AV died in 1892 leaving a son (a posthumous son?), the son (Edward perhaps? AV was called Eddy by his intimates and signed himself Edward), the son would then become Duke of Clarence and Alexandra would continue to be Duchess of Clarence until her son married. At that point she would become  the Dowager Duchess of Clarence, to distinguish her from her daughter in law, unless by then her son was king or Prince of Wales, when she would continue to be Duchess of Clarence. As a parallel, Queen Victoria's mother remained simply HRH the Duchess of Kent after her husband's death, since there was no other Duke and thus no other Duchess to cause confusion.

Hope that helps

Ann

Since Nicholas was born in 1868

Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 11:34:50 AM »
Interesting idea.

Two ladies under consideration as brides for Nicholas were Helene of Orleans (1871-1951), who subsequently married the Duke of Aosta, a cousin of Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy, and Margaret of Prussia (1872-1954), youngest sister of the Kaiser, who married Prince Friedrich Karl of Hesse.

Both these gentlemen were well away from inheriting thrones, so your having Nicholas marry either Helene or Margaret would not create major complications with other royal families.

Otherwise, I thought of a daughter of either Frederik VIII of Denmark or George I of Greece, but all of them were Nicholas's first cousins, so putting them within the prohibited degrees of the Orthodox Church.

Had Alexandra married Prince Albert Victor, she would have been HRH the Duchess of Clarence. Had AV died in 1892 leaving a son (a posthumous son?), the son (Edward perhaps? AV was called Eddy by his intimates and signed himself Edward), the son would then become Duke of Clarence and Alexandra would continue to be Duchess of Clarence until her son married. At that point she would become  the Dowager Duchess of Clarence, to distinguish her from her daughter in law, unless by then her son was king or Prince of Wales, when she would continue to be Duchess of Clarence. As a parallel, Queen Victoria's mother remained simply HRH the Duchess of Kent after her husband's death, since there was no other Duke and thus no other Duchess to cause confusion.

Hope that helps

Ann

Since Nicholas was born in 1868

Thanks Ann!

However, Helene and Margaret either did not want to become Russian Orthodox or was not allowed too by their father so they are out.

Alexandra and Albert are to marry in 1889 or 1890, giving them time to have a son (1890) and a daughter (1891) before Albert's death/a son in 1891 before his death. This places the son-who I've decided will be currently named Edward thanks to Ann and a daughter (name unknown)-second and third in line. I'm just pondering if 'Edward' should be effected with haemophilia or not, and if the unnamed daughter will carry the gene.

With Olga and Tatiana in regards to marriage aspects, Olga is suggested as a possible bride to Alexandra's fictional son 'Edward'. Because her year of birth is changed, maybe a wedding between the two royals is expected to happen before 1914, especially since 'Edward' becomes King in 1910. This guarantees Olga's safety if the Romanovs execution still happens, it all depends on the events planned out. ;)

Choices from Nicholas' wife, with more to come and suggestions are welcome!:

Princess Helena of Waldeck and Pyrmont (Helene Friederike Auguste; later Duchess of Albany; 17 February 1861 – 1 September 1922)

Duchess Elisabeth Alexandrine of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (10 August 1869 – 3 September 1955) (Although closer to Nicholas' age then the others, she becomes Queen of Denmark. This will effect the Danish throne so she's second.)

Princess Charlotte Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Louise of Hesse-Kassel (Elisabeth Charlotte Alexandra Maria Luisa von Hessen-Kassel; 13 June 1861 – 7 June 1955) 

Duchess Helene of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (16 January 1857 – 28 August 1936)

Princess Marie Elisabeth of Saxe-Meiningen (23 September 1853 – 22 February 1923)   
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 12:08:46 PM by GDSophie »
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 12:15:16 PM »
Interesting idea.

Two ladies under consideration as brides for Nicholas were Helene of Orleans (1871-1951), who subsequently married the Duke of Aosta, a cousin of Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy, and Margaret of Prussia (1872-1954), youngest sister of the Kaiser, who married Prince Friedrich Karl of Hesse.

Both these gentlemen were well away from inheriting thrones, so your having Nicholas marry either Helene or Margaret would not create major complications with other royal families.

Otherwise, I thought of a daughter of either Frederik VIII of Denmark or George I of Greece, but all of them were Nicholas's first cousins, so putting them within the prohibited degrees of the Orthodox Church.

Had Alexandra married Prince Albert Victor, she would have been HRH the Duchess of Clarence. Had AV died in 1892 leaving a son (a posthumous son?), the son (Edward perhaps? AV was called Eddy by his intimates and signed himself Edward), the son would then become Duke of Clarence and Alexandra would continue to be Duchess of Clarence until her son married. At that point she would become  the Dowager Duchess of Clarence, to distinguish her from her daughter in law, unless by then her son was king or Prince of Wales, when she would continue to be Duchess of Clarence. As a parallel, Queen Victoria's mother remained simply HRH the Duchess of Kent after her husband's death, since there was no other Duke and thus no other Duchess to cause confusion.

Hope that helps

Ann

Since Nicholas was born in 1868

Thanks Ann!

However, Helene and Margaret either did not want to become Russian Orthodox or was not allowed too by their father so they are out.

Alexandra and Albert are to marry in 1889 or 1890, giving them time to have a son (1890) and a daughter (1891) before Albert's death/a son in 1891 before his death. This places the son-who I've decided will be currently named Edward thanks to Ann and a daughter (name unknown)-second and third in line. I'm just pondering if 'Edward' should be effected with haemophilia or not, and if the unnamed daughter will carry the gene.

With Olga and Tatiana in regards to marriage aspects, Olga is suggested as a possible bride to Alexandra's fictional son 'Edward'. Because her year of birth is changed, maybe a wedding between the two royals is expected to happen before 1914, especially since 'Edward' becomes King in 1910. This guarantees Olga's safety if the Romanovs execution still happens, it all depends on the events planned out. ;)

Choices from Nicholas' wife, with more to come and suggestions are welcome!:

Princess Helena of Waldeck and Pyrmont (Helene Friederike Auguste; later Duchess of Albany; 17 February 1861 – 1 September 1922)

Duchess Elisabeth Alexandrine of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (10 August 1869 – 3 September 1955) (Although closer to Nicholas' age then the others, she becomes Queen of Denmark. This will effect the Danish throne so she's second.)

Princess Charlotte Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Louise of Hesse-Kassel (Elisabeth Charlotte Alexandra Maria Luisa von Hessen-Kassel; 13 June 1861 – 7 June 1955) 

Duchess Helene of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (16 January 1857 – 28 August 1936)

Princess Marie Elisabeth of Saxe-Meiningen (23 September 1853 – 22 February 1923)   


Wrong Alexandrine, apologies! Either way, she isn't really a good candidate because I don't know much about her.

Also, what would a daughter of a Duke of Clarence and Avondale be called? Princess _____, Duchess of Clarence and Avondale? Probably not because she's not her brothers wife!

And any suggestions on nicknames for Alice? (This is not directed at Alexandra; her fictional daughters name may be Alice.)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 12:44:10 PM by GDSophie »
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 02:33:43 PM »
All your candidates are quite a bit older than Nicholas, apart from Elizabeth of Mecklenburg, which would really rule them out, given that Nicholas was heir apparent. The only royal husband I can think of who was more than a few months younger than his wife was Haakon VII of Norway, who was three years younger than Maud of Wales. However, at the time of their marriage, Haakon merely the second son of Frederik VIII of Denmark, and his elder brother, the future Christian X, could be expected to marry and produce sons, as indeed he did.

I wonder whether the most realistic solution would be to invent someone - add an extra daughter to an existing family (CS Forester gave the Duke of Wellington a fictitious sister, for example).

The fictitious daughter of the Duke of Clarence and Avondale would be Princess X of Clarence and Avondale, but probably just referred to as Princess X of Clarence.  How about Princess Charlotte of Clarence?

Ann

Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 03:18:37 PM »
All your candidates are quite a bit older than Nicholas, apart from Elizabeth of Mecklenburg, which would really rule them out, given that Nicholas was heir apparent. The only royal husband I can think of who was more than a few months younger than his wife was Haakon VII of Norway, who was three years younger than Maud of Wales. However, at the time of their marriage, Haakon merely the second son of Frederik VIII of Denmark, and his elder brother, the future Christian X, could be expected to marry and produce sons, as indeed he did.

I wonder whether the most realistic solution would be to invent someone - add an extra daughter to an existing family (CS Forester gave the Duke of Wellington a fictitious sister, for example).

The fictitious daughter of the Duke of Clarence and Avondale would be Princess X of Clarence and Avondale, but probably just referred to as Princess X of Clarence.  How about Princess Charlotte of Clarence?

Ann

It was an idea to create a fictional Princess, and it may be a better option. She was going to be the eldest daughter (1868) to Prince Christian of Schleswig-Holstein and Princess Helena of the United Kingdom. Now it's the only matter of finding her a suitable name, like Alice Beatrice to honour her aunts. She would take the name 'Catherine' instead of Alexandra when she married Nicholas (because Alix took the name Alexandra when she married Albert).

Thank you, Ann! Alexandra's fictional daughter Alice goes by one of her middle names, Charlotte, like her great-grandmother did before her. So her full title would be Princess Alice Charlotte Victoria of Clarence.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:42:53 PM by GDSophie »
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline TimM

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 11:38:07 AM »
Well, good luck with this story.


Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 11:59:07 AM »
Thank you Tim! I'll post excerpts as I go along.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline TimM

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 05:30:55 PM »
Quote
I'll post excerpts as I go along.

I look forward to reading them.

Offline Превед

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 05:41:42 PM »
Princess Bathildis of Schaumburg-Lippe, born in 1873 in  Ratiborschitz / Ratibořice in Bohemia, would be ideal because:

- She was born and grew up in Slavophone surroundings, (without being an impossible Catholic). Should not be underestimated when it comes to giving the character an emotional bond to Russia as her adopted homeland. Especially the sort of serendipitous bond that comes from servants, tenants, surroundings etc. speaking a Slavic language as a "kitchen tongue" around her.

- The contrasts between the "what-ifs" and what really happened are so intriguing: In reality she married the last reigning prince of Waldeck-Pyrmont (3 years older than NII) and became the mother of the infamous Nazi Prince Josias of Waldeck-Pyrmont (and great grandmother of the current handicapped hereditary prince) and through her daughter Helene, Hereditary Grand Duchess of Oldenburg, great grandmother of current German right-wing politician Beatrix von Storch née Duchess of Oldenburg. And her two younger sons both married Countesses Platen-Hallermund of Sehlendorf, closely related (by family and geography) to the Counts Platen-Hallermund of Weissenhaus and Friederikenhof, the erstwhile employers of Franziska Schanzkowska as an agricultural labourer.

Of course the fact that she was a younger daughter of the non-reigning prince of a secondogeniture of a very minor state speaks against the likelyhood of her marrying one of the world's most powerful monarchs at the time. But nearly all her siblings married well, one actually a king and another nearly a (Slavophone, Orthodox) king, so the family had ambitions / standards. Two of her brothers had a Romanov mother-in-law and one sister had a Russian Grand Duchess as sister-in-law.

For more about her, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Bathildis_of_Schaumburg-Lippe

Interestingly the name Bathildis (with original Proto-Germanic or Gothic final s) mirrors the etymological original of Alix's name: Adalheidis
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 06:08:58 PM by Превед »
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline GDSophie

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Re: A New AU fic - title, ideas, help with accuracy?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 02:23:01 AM »
Princess Bathildis of Schaumburg-Lippe, born in 1873 in  Ratiborschitz / Ratibořice in Bohemia, would be ideal because:

- She was born and grew up in Slavophone surroundings, (without being an impossible Catholic). Should not be underestimated when it comes to giving the character an emotional bond to Russia as her adopted homeland. Especially the sort of serendipitous bond that comes from servants, tenants, surroundings etc. speaking a Slavic language as a "kitchen tongue" around her.

- The contrasts between the "what-ifs" and what really happened are so intriguing: In reality she married the last reigning prince of Waldeck-Pyrmont (3 years older than NII) and became the mother of the infamous Nazi Prince Josias of Waldeck-Pyrmont (and great grandmother of the current handicapped hereditary prince) and through her daughter Helene, Hereditary Grand Duchess of Oldenburg, great grandmother of current German right-wing politician Beatrix von Storch née Duchess of Oldenburg. And her two younger sons both married Countesses Platen-Hallermund of Sehlendorf, closely related (by family and geography) to the Counts Platen-Hallermund of Weissenhaus and Friederikenhof, the erstwhile employers of Franziska Schanzkowska as an agricultural labourer.

Of course the fact that she was a younger daughter of the non-reigning prince of a secondogeniture of a very minor state speaks against the likelyhood of her marrying one of the world's most powerful monarchs at the time. But nearly all her siblings married well, one actually a king and another nearly a (Slavophone, Orthodox) king, so the family had ambitions / standards. Two of her brothers had a Romanov mother-in-law and one sister had a Russian Grand Duchess as sister-in-law.

For more about her, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Bathildis_of_Schaumburg-Lippe

Interestingly the name Bathildis (with original Proto-Germanic or Gothic final s) mirrors the etymological original of Alix's name: Adalheidis

She could definitely be a runner up! Her German roots however, considering the Bohemian Court was predominantly German, may have a few problems with Marie and Alexander. He only allowed Nicholas to marry Alix on his deathbed, and Nicholas' wedding is moved to 1890 in this story. Making a fictional other daughter to Princess Helena is much easier, considering I could create her while staying truth to her upbringing-similar to her mother's and sisters-and because she would be predominantly English-even though her father was German-thanks to Victoria wanting Helena to stay close to her, Marie and Alexander wouldn't have a problem with a more English-raised Princess. And Princess Alexandra, Marie's sister, could vouch for her ;).
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna