Author Topic: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?  (Read 856 times)

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Offline The Test Card Girl

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End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« on: February 15, 2018, 04:58:44 AM »
Without Lenin's example, what would have happened when Wilhelm II abdicated?
Maybe a regency for the Crown Prince's eldest son, like Ebert wanted.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 09:28:15 AM »
A very big question!!!

Without Lenin's example, it is entirely possible that the German governmental structure would not have collapsed in the way it did in November 1918. Bear in mind that it was not only the Kaiser's monarchy which disappeared, but every other monarchy in the country. By no means all the other rulers were regarded as personally culpable in the same way as the Kaiser. The Crown Prince fled to Holland at the same time as the Kaiser, but was not granted political asylum beforehand and so was interned by the Dutch for a period. He did not return to Germany until 1923.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2018, 11:05:16 AM »
Big Question!

Germany in late 1918 was in meltdown. Lenin who had a very large propaganda campaign run out of the Russian embassy in Berlin made a bad situation worse. There have been people who have suggested that a regency of a German General or generals for the Kaiser's grandson would have resulted in less chaos. The biggest problem. Is the regent will have to sign the Versailles treaty and if he does this the German Generals can't say they were stabbed in the back later. this was one of the major problems of the Weimar republic. The Nazis were the biggest critics of the Versailles treaty. There is a chance if Germany had remained a monarchy there would have been no Hitler or WW II.

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Offline IvanVII

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Re: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 12:45:41 AM »
The Allies may have been content with an ununified Germany. A loose collection of German states, UK gets to control Hannover again.

Offline TimM

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Re: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 11:50:05 AM »
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The Allies may have been content with an ununified Germany.

I wonder if this is the reason why Germany was split into four occupation zones after World War II.  Of course, the idea was that all four zones would eventually be merged back together.  Of course, due to the Cold War, that took 45 years to happen.
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Offline Превед

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Re: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2018, 02:55:02 PM »
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The Allies may have been content with an ununified Germany.

I wonder if this is the reason why Germany was split into four occupation zones after World War II.  Of course, the idea was that all four zones would eventually be merged back together.  Of course, due to the Cold War, that took 45 years to happen.

Britain and France were happy with a partitioned Germany after WW2. The US insisted on merging the three Western zones into a democratic, capitalist state that could serve as an ally in the cold war against Communism and constitute a stable Germany that was big enough to not feel insignificant and resentful and not big enough to get any megalomanic ideas. For the same reason the US encouraged West European coöperation that led to the EU.
Березы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и березы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: End of the German Empire without the Russian Rev?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2018, 06:18:28 PM »
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Britain and France were happy with a partitioned Germany after WW2. The US insisted on merging the three Western zones into a democratic, capitalist state

Of course, Britain and France suffered far more than the U.S. did during WWII, so I can't blame them in this instance. 
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