Author Topic: what would you say...?  (Read 1289 times)

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Offline brnbg aka: liljones1968

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what would you say...?
« on: May 16, 2019, 10:01:52 PM »
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this is a "what if" question...

let's say you have 5 - 10 minutes sometime in 1913 to speak privately with the empress.   what would you say to her,
to try and persuade her onto a different path and, hopefully save her children, herself, her husband and the others?



PLEASE NOTE:   
i am NOT looking for an argument.   if one starts, no matter who it's between, i will simply remove this topic.
also
i am NOT saying she is the reason the family was murdered.  however, one must recognise that she was a contributing factor, especially given the influence she held with her husband.   
"when i die, i hope i go like my grandfather --
peacefully in my sleep; not screaming & in terror,
like the passengers in his car."

-- anonymous
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Offline GDSophie

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Re: what would you say...?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2019, 02:22:05 PM »
(me, crawling out of unactivity after forgetting my password and remembering it by typing in a random one on the first try months after trying to get back on originally) I LIVEEEE!

I would tell her everything, and probably tell her to take her children and run the minute she's able even if yes, she has to leave Maria behind (but Kerensky seems like the type of person to allow a recovered Maria and whoever of the staff stays to look after her to leave and join the family). Of course I wouldn't be able to stick around to personally oversee their safety and if I could I would tell her which playmate of Alexei's got him and Olga sick and eventually the other girls so he wouldn't be able to infect them if I knew his identity but unfortunately I don't.

But to your last comment 'however one must recognise that she was a contributing factor, especially given the influence she held with her husband'.

I used to believe as many do that Alexandra's influence on Nicholas was negative and he followed her every command without question. In actuality I have discovered Alexandra's influence was the best thing for Nicholas; the decisions people blame on Alexandra was actually his, not hers, and all of her decisions were actually good for the people. Alexandra is much shrouded in mystery and rumors back then that cropped up that are still believed now don't help. For example people believing she hated Ducky because Marie Pavlovna the Elder said in a letter it was her who exiled her son and Ducky (Marie did not like her one bit and blamed her for almost everything) when in fact she didn't-it was Nicholas who had warned Kirill before hand in a letter-and even pitied her, even afterwards they had frequent visits when they got back from their exile including Ducky being one of Alexei's godparents.

But back to her influence; here's some evidence by Romanov-professionals to back it up.

“It’s often said that he was under the heel of his wife, Empress Alexandra Fedorovna, and that through her acted the evil genius Rasputin. No, no. Alexandra Fedorovna’s real influence on politics arose only in 1915, but even then her influence was far from domineering. This is clearly seen in their personal correspondence. The empress gave the tsar a lot of advice, but in reality, he ignored the majority of it. As for Rasputin, if we look at what advice he gave on domestic and foreign policy, almost none of it was put into practice. Yes, Rasputin tried to play in politics, tried to take the side of this or that power group, or rather, this or that person of authority. But his real influence was small.”

- Fedor Gaida (associate professor in the department of history at Moscow State University)

“Her influence on affairs of state was greatly exaggerated by her detractors. Nicholas never did anything he didn’t himself wish to do. Biggest example of this was Rasputin’s strong advice (he practically begged him) not to get involved in the war because If he does, it will destroy everything. Alix felt same. If only N actually listened to good advice then, but he didn’t. The point is - Nicholas listened to what they had to say, but in the end did what he felt was right. Sometimes that coincided with what Alexandra advised him sometimes it didn’t. But to say that he was her or his puppet, and that she actually had any serious influence on what happened, is absurd.”

- Helen Azar (author of ‘In the Steps of the Romanovs: Final Two Years of the Last Russian Imperial Family’ and several more Romanov books)


“Any normal person would voice his or her opinion to their spouse about things that are going on, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even if that spouse happens to be a Tsar or king. In fact, it would be a bit weird if they didn’t. I doubt that Alix expected him to do as she said, and of course he didn’t. But she had the right to express her opinion and give advice as his spouse, the rest was up to him, he was the autocrat not her. Besides, we don’t know of whether he tended to use her as a sounding board, as a lot of spouses do for each other.

Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with her expressing her opinions or even advising him, doing that alone doesn’t actually make it happen. As far as Rasputin, chances are that if Nicholas actually listened to his advice about the war, that would have saved him, his family and his dynasty. His advisors, who were supposedly so smart and politically savvy, all encouraged the war loudly, and he followed their advice. And look where that got him. Rasputin really nailed it, if ever N needed to listen to R and his wife, it was that one time.”

- Once more, Helen Azar

“Her ‘meddling’ in reality did nothing - the Tsar followed her advice on only a few occasions - it was analysed years ago on the Alexander Palace Forum and it turned out he followed her advice something only like only 6 or 7 times, and those times it was mostly with a good result. It was more the perception that she was meddling that caused damage to their reputation.”

- George Hawkins (co-author of a forthcoming book with Helen Azar on Grand Duchess Maria, also a translator of many Russian primary sources)

See? It was even talked about here years back!
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: what would you say...?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 04:59:57 PM »
I am a bit late but I would tell her what was going to happen to her and her family. As for advise on how to prevent it here is what I would advise:

Have Nicholas read the riot act to the rest of the family starting with Maria P the elder quit bad mouthing Alexandra ect.

Tell Grand Duke Nicholas N his wife introduced Rasputin to Alexandra and as long as she wants him around you need to start defending him

Have the DEMF meet Rasputin and tell her he does not run Russia also quit bad mouth Alexandra.

Tell Alexandra to try and patch things up somewhat with the St Petersburg society. Do a better job at self promotion. This applies to Nicholas as well.

WW I either leave GD Nicholas N in command of the army or have Nicholas assume command of the army from day one.

Right after the start of WW I have a meeting of the Duma leaders and offer them positions in a wartime coalition government.

Have Nicholas in early 1916 publicly defend you and speech out against the anti-spy hysteria in Russia

I don't know if these measures will work but, they might just save the IF and Russia from what happened to them in real life.

Offline Sanochka

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Re: what would you say...?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2019, 01:41:24 PM »
Good suggestions, all, but these are all spoken from hindsight - which Empress Alexandra of course did not have in 1913. 

If any of us could go back to 1913 and chat with her, would she believe our warnings about the approaching catastrophe?  Unless we were able to convince her that we were visiting from the 2010s - a tough sell - I don't believe she would heed our warnings, any more than she heeded later warnings as Revolution erupted outside the palace windows. 

Offline GDSophie

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Re: what would you say...?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2019, 03:09:38 PM »
Well, as much as I would hate to trick her, I would convince her I was sent from God because convincing someone you're from the future is a tough feat. Telling her everything I wanted then, if she doesn't believe me, telling her something that will happen a month or so from now (depending what month we talk). When it does eventually happen, she can draw her own conclusions.

But maybe you don't need too. If you convince her that you just have her and her families' best interests at heart maybe she'll be more inclined to believe you.
'Give my love to all who remember me' - Olga Nikolaevna