Author Topic: Descendants of Christ?  (Read 84601 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2005, 01:36:20 PM »
Yes, I have compared & studied the synoptic Gospels & I know of the history of how they were written, their sources etc.
I am aware of the big rows between Peter & Paul & James and so on.
But I simply do not think there is any evidence to suggest that Mary was not supportive of Jesus throughout His life.

Dashkova

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2005, 01:54:50 PM »
Quote
Yes, I have compared & studied the synoptic Gospels & I know of the history of how they were written, their sources etc.
I am aware of the big rows between Peter & Paul & James and so on.
But I simply do not think there is any evidence to suggest that Mary was not supportive of Jesus throughout His life.


There is in the non-canonical texts.  Ever wonder *why* they are NON-canonical?
In order to have such a discussion though you absolutely must leave *faith* out of it.  I respect that you are a religious person, but because of that factor I don't think we can really engage in any serious dialogue on this subject.

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2005, 01:57:03 PM »
Quote


In order to have such a discussion though you absolutely must leave *faith* out of it.  I respect that you are a religious person, but because of that factor I don't think we can really engage in any serious dialogue on this subject.


I think that is a very reasonable answer  :)
I agree.

Offline Denise

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
  • Anneliese: Historian in training
    • View Profile
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2005, 02:37:37 PM »
Interesting thread.  I have read HB HG after reading the Davinci Code.  Good read, although the Priory of Sion was a total hoax.  I had forgotten the connection to MQOS....Will have to dig out my books and join you....

And Dashkova is right.  This needs to be discussed on a purely academic level.  By bringing in faith it makes it difficult to bring forth an argument without offending someone.  And I have copies of the non-canonical scriptures if we need them for quotes....

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2005, 04:52:37 PM »
I think I should stay well away from this thread & you will be pleased to know I will neither read nor reaspond to it! :) :)
UNLESS by any chance, anyone uncovers anymore of the mystery of Rennes Le Chateaux which is all connected ...Shepherds in Arcadia etc....??

Offline Denise

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
  • Anneliese: Historian in training
    • View Profile
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2005, 05:54:29 PM »
Quote
I think I should stay well away from this thread & you will be pleased to know I will neither read nor reaspond to it! :) :)
UNLESS by any chance, anyone uncovers anymore of the mystery of Rennes Le Chateaux which is all connected ...Shepherds in Arcadia etc....??


Don't you DARE stay away!!  :)

And what is the story with Rennes le Chateau?  Other than HB HG I can find very little on it.  It may all well  be a very mundane story at heart, but all the arcane meaning people tend to give it makes it irresistable to me!!

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2005, 06:01:10 PM »
Quote

Don't you DARE stay away!!  :)

And what is the story with Rennes le Chateau?  Other than HB HG I can find very little on it.  It may all well  be a very mundane story at heart, but all the arcane meaning people tend to give it makes it irresistable to me!!


I really feel I should. You & Dashkova are quite right - FAITH makes it impossible to share this discussion without it becoming too emotive. (It isn't that I doubt either my faith or learning - it's something else, I can't put into words. I feel it too deeply. Truly.)

Rennes le Chateau/chateaux (can't quite remember) is a mystery however that is intriguing....

Offline Denise

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
  • Anneliese: Historian in training
    • View Profile
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2005, 07:01:23 PM »
Quote

I really feel I should. You & Dashkova are quite right - FAITH makes it impossible to share this discussion without it becoming too emotive. (It isn't that I doubt either my faith or learning - it's something else, I can't put into words. I feel it too deeply. Truly.)




I have faith.  However, I always feel that the more I know about Jesus the man and the time he lived and struggle over which books to become canon the better.  All these things help me to see more about who Jesus was and what his message truly meant.  I like to learn all sides of a story and as I process it I can discern the truth of the matter.  For myself, I need to find proof of Jesus the man to make his sacrifice and salvation as Lord so incredibly meaningful.  

And the discussion can be emotive--just realize that nothing is a personal attack and understand that others have a different way of acknowledging faith (or whatever beliefs they have--we are a very eclectic online community of spititual beliefs and nationalities).


rskkiya

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2005, 08:33:33 PM »
    So sorry to be the real toad in the imaginary garden but I fear that all the "Holy blood Holy Grail/ Da Vinci code" chatter is just a lot of sillyness...
   HBHG was concocted by some individuals who were rather "occult conspiracy" oriented  and had been duped by a french con man {The Priory of Zion}. "The Da Vinci Code" is in my poor opinion, a rather dreadful spy/fantasy work--I was deeply disapointed by the steriotypical characters and the very predictable 'plot twists'! :-[ :-X
    When people long for simple answers to complex ethical questions - it's not too surprising that these sort of books - tapping into western societies vein of quasi-mysticism and occult conspiracy- that end up attracting attention.
Secret Societies? Ancient Bloodlines? Hidden Images?

Cha Ching!

mean old rskkiya 8)

Dashkova

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2005, 08:41:41 PM »
Quote
   So sorry to be the real toad in the imaginary garden but I fear that all the "Holy blood Holy Grail/ Da Vinci code" chatter is just a lot of sillyness...
    HBHG was concocted by some individuals who were rather "occult conspiracy" oriented  and had been duped by a french con man {The Priory of Zion}. "The Da Vinci Code" is in my poor opinion, a rather dreadful spy/fantasy work--I was deeply disapointed by the steriotypical characters and the very predictable 'plot twists'! :-[ :-X
     When people long for simple answers to complex ethical questions - it's not too surprising that these sort of books - tapping into western societies vein of quasi-mysticism and occult conspiracy- that end up attracting attention.
Secret Societies? Ancient Bloodlines? Hidden Images?

Cha Ching!

mean old rskkiya 8)


LOL! I agree completely Comrade R :)  I was VERY disappointed with the DaVinci Code (and even the very title is pathetic as nobody called Leonardo "DaVinci", ever!)

And yes, Denise, studying the historical aspects of the *possible* life of Jesus definitely changes one's perspective.  I was never in my life entirely convinced by the church (despite my parent's best efforts), but learning the history, particularly the non-canonical books and the fact of the matter that Jesus was one of a *number* of similarly-styled "sons of God" "sons of Man" (he actually went by *both*  :-/) that were running around that part of the Roman Empire in those days -- certainly understandable as such people were a reaction to the hated Roman rule.
Jesus, if he even was an individual, is just the one who got all the press, most of which I doubt very much he would have wanted (including the building of a religion around him).

rskkiya

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2005, 08:48:19 PM »
Hello Comrade Dashkova  :-*

I have also read that the gentleman we refer to as Jesus (Joshua?) may well have been a composite figure based on a number of Prophetic/Messianic figures wandering about Isreal at that time.

rskkiya

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2005, 08:49:31 PM »
No big surprise that I am in with the both of you. I got so tired of listening to my own "crowd" running on about the blasted thing that I bought the unabridged cassette version. Listened to all 13+ hours of it and still do not see wat all the excitement was about.  I guess it may make a good movie, but that is about it. Now I am supposed to read the prequel ?? Not much of a chance of that, I tell you. I feel for the StarWars  epic, that will be enough of pre-post an just plain "quels" for me. [ok, I did LOVE Lord of the Rings, but it was in sequence].
The Jesus story, oh, I have been through THAT fire before as well, from BOTH in inside and outside of the Church.
Good luck !

Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Denise

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 792
  • Anneliese: Historian in training
    • View Profile
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2005, 08:57:59 PM »
Quote
   So sorry to be the real toad in the imaginary garden but I fear that all the "Holy blood Holy Grail/ Da Vinci code" chatter is just a lot of sillyness...
    HBHG was concocted by some individuals who were rather "occult conspiracy" oriented  and had been duped by a french con man {The Priory of Zion}. "The Da Vinci Code" is in my poor opinion, a rather dreadful spy/fantasy work--I was deeply disapointed by the steriotypical characters and the very predictable 'plot twists'! :-[ :-X
    


I agree!!  The whole priory of sion stuff was crap.  I did enjoy the historical overview about the cathars, Knights templar etc, but you need to filter out the Sion stuff.  

And as far as Jesus as a figure goes, there is a book called "One Jesus Many Christs" that talks about how the figure of Jesus and his life was filtered through the Greek hero/God stories and took on aspects of those myths in order to appeal to  the gentiles and Romans so that the religion did not die out.  Very interesting stuff.

As far as the DaVinci Code--I enjoyed reading it, and it really led me to read a lot more of the Gnostic history and scripture.  I can't be sorry about that.  

Dashkova

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2005, 09:00:36 PM »
Quote
Hello Comrade Dashkova  :-*

I have also read that the gentleman we refer to as Jesus (Joshua?) may well have been a composite figure based on a number of Prophetic/Messianic figures wandering about Isreal at that time.

rskkiya


Yeshua may well have been a composite, we don't know for sure, though it is entirely reasonable that an individual with that name and doing those sorts of things did exist.  Certainly there were plenty of his type, as you said, wandering around Galilee and even into Jerusalem.  Yeshua was a follower of another of his type, the man we know as "John the Baptist".
We'll probably never know for sure, which is too bad, as it is such a fascinating topic

Dashkova

  • Guest
Re: Descendants of Christ?
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2005, 09:05:54 PM »
Quote

I agree!!  The whole priory of sion stuff was crap.  I did enjoy the historical overview about the cathars, Knights templar etc, but you need to filter out the Sion stuff.  

And as far as Jesus as a figure goes, there is a book called "One Jesus Many Christs" that talks about how the figure of Jesus and his life was filtered through the Greek hero/God stories and took on aspects of those myths in order to appeal to  the gentiles and Romans so that the religion did not die out.  Very interesting stuff.

As far as the DaVinci Code--I enjoyed reading it, and it really led me to read a lot more of the Gnostic history and scripture.  I can't be sorry about that.  


I had high hopes when I bought the book last summer to take to the beach. I was rather let down.  As light, fluffy, beach reading it's fine and dandy, at times even a page turner, I guess, but sheesh...the guy doesn't know squat about art history (again, even the title is wrong), and there was one section that annoyed me a great deal (taking more than a dozen pages to get to the point -- as though it were a huge revelation -- that "sophia" means "Wisdom".  Well...duuuhh.  The author apparently has not much respect for the educational background of the reading public as he seemed to think he was being *very* clever with the sophia bit).
The book suffered from plenty of "cheese" factor as well, and the ahem..."ceremony" was kind of..well, it's been done to death in other literary incarnations, hasn't it.
The ending was weak, too. Eh....I gave my copy away to a relative, who died a week later...I would say it might have been the book but I *did* also give her a copy of "Girl With a Pearl Earring", which is quite nice (though the only decent book by that author, imo).