Author Topic: Alexei and his spaniel Joy  (Read 49424 times)

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Offline Gorseheart

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2010, 09:32:38 PM »
Where did Alexei come up with the name Joy?
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Offline Dust_of_History

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2010, 10:26:33 AM »
As far as I know, his mother recommended this name. She wrote a letter to him and explained what "Joy" means in English.

Offline nena

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2010, 12:56:44 PM »
And when did Aleksei get his spaniel? In photos from early 1914, he is visible with the Heir.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2010, 03:36:15 PM »
As far as I know, his mother recommended this name. She wrote a letter to him and explained what "Joy" means in English.

Interesting! Do you have a copy of the letter? That would probably provide a date.
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Offline Dust_of_History

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2010, 04:39:09 PM »
Yes, it was not easy but I've finally found the letter. :-) I've found it in the German book "Alexej, der Sohn des letzten Zaren" (Alexei, the son of the last Tsar) by Elisabeth Heresch.

Alexandra sent the letter to Alexei on October 31, 1914. As I only have the letter in German, here's my translation (only the part in which Alexandra mentions Joy):

"...What about your dog? He follows (your command) better when you call him "Joy". That means "joy" (the original word here was in Russian) in English."

Here is my copy in German:

"...Und dein Hund? Er folgt besser, wenn du ihn "Joy" rufst, das heißt auf Englisch "Freude"."  
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 04:41:35 PM by Dust_of_History »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2010, 06:47:58 PM »
There are white and black English Springer Spaniels,  however,  Joy was not.  His color was a white and reddish brown.  The term reddish brown is  known in the dog show world as "liver" color.

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« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 06:50:22 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2010, 07:17:24 PM »


Quote


Joy

THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS by King and Wilson p. 364 tell us that  Joy was found with Michael Letemin when he was arrested.  

Quote

...[in part]...

.... Joy, Alexis' spaniel, hid during the murder and , when the bodies were taken out of the cellar room, he ran out into the streets of Ekaterinburg. Later, Joy was found in the home of an Ipatiex House guard, Michael Letemin. When the guard was arrested by the White Army. Colonel Paul Pavlovich Rodzianko looked after Joy who had by then became totally blind. Joy was taken to Omsk with the British Military Mission. There, Baroness Buxhoeveden went to see Joy and the dog seemed to recognize her, despite he was blind, probably because of a familiar smell. Then Paul Rodzianko brought the dog out of Russia with him to a new home in England ". All this is from an article by Marion Wynn " The Last Resting Place of Joy " which was published in ROYALTY DIGEST of november 2004. Marion Wynn also says that " Ortino died with his mistress on the 17th july 1918 and that Jemmy was found in the mineshaft ". I do not know if there is GENUINE evidence about Ortino beeing killed in the cellar room ? And judging from the photo kindly posted by AGRBear, I find it very difficult to recognize Jemmy and to believe that his body did not decompose after so many months in the mineshaft.

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"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2010, 08:28:10 PM »
Yes, it was not easy but I've finally found the letter. :-) I've found it in the German book "Alexej, der Sohn des letzten Zaren" (Alexei, the son of the last Tsar) by Elisabeth Heresch.

Alexandra sent the letter to Alexei on October 31, 1914. As I only have the letter in German, here's my translation (only the part in which Alexandra mentions Joy):

"...What about your dog? He follows (your command) better when you call him "Joy". That means "joy" (the original word here was in Russian) in English."

Here is my copy in German:

"...Und dein Hund? Er folgt besser, wenn du ihn "Joy" rufst, das heißt auf Englisch "Freude"."  

Excellent. Thank you.

Makes me wonder what other name Aleksei had been using for Joy...
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Offline Dust_of_History

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2010, 07:02:27 AM »
Yes, that would be interesting to know. Unfortunately, Alexandra doesn't mention anything about that. Maybe Alexei had not been using another name for the dog and was just unsure how to call it. Then Alexandra recommended calling the dog Joy. But that's just a guess.

Offline nena

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2010, 11:07:37 AM »
I am deeply grateful for the letter. Danke shoen,  Dust_of_History! ;-). Still, he might have got him in the spring/summer of 1914, right?
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Offline Dust_of_History

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2010, 07:55:34 AM »
Bitte schön nena, no problem. :-) Yes, it is very likely that Alexei got Joy in spring/summer 1914. But it seems that the dog did not get the name "Joy" until November in the same year.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2010, 02:22:26 PM »
....[in part]...

Here’s another photo I like a lot of Alexis wearing the uniform of the Tsar’s “Konvoi” (Cossack Bodyguard). It was taken on the terrace of the Livadia Palace with Joy, maybe at the same time he had his photo taken with his parents (see my earlier post).




Ortino, what makes you think that Alexis didn’t get Joy before 1914? My feeling is that the 2 photos from Livadia (the one with Joy and the other one with his  parents) were taken on October 4, 1913. Why? Because on that day, the Imperial Family celebrated the regimental holiday of the Emperor’s Own Cossack Escort by going to the Cossacks’ barracks for a review and later coming back to the Palace for a holiday luncheon, as recorded by Nicholas II in his diary. It was customary for the Emperor to wear their uniform on that occasion.  As Alexis also is wearing the same uniform,  it must have been for a special occasion related to the Cossack Escort. They did go back to Livadia in Spring 1914 but I can’t think of any similar occasion then.

I unfortunately don’t know when the Tsarevich got his dog. But on October 5, 1913 Nicholas II wrote that “Alexis received his gifts in our bedroom”. October 5 was Alexis’ namesday. Before the Revolution, a namesday was more important than a birthday: gifts and congratulations were offered on one’s namesday. What if Alexis had received an early present on the day before – a dog! – so the photo taken on the terrace that day would be the first taken with his new companion?

By then it seems his injured leg was much better. When they arrived in the Crimea that year (on August 9) Alexis still couldn’t walk. I have a newsreel taken on that day and he can be seen being carried by Derevenko. Nicholas II records that he started his mudbaths on August 20. According to Gilliard, they helped a lot as he was soon able to walk again, albeit with a limp, as seen on other newsreels from late 1913-early 1914.

...[in part]...

« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 02:25:33 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Dust_of_History

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2010, 03:33:06 PM »
Thanks AGRBear, of course it is possible that Alexei got Joy one year earlier in 1913, but I doubt it. I have never seen a letter or a diary entry written by Alexei in 1913 in which he mentions Joy. If Alexei had gotten Joy for his namesday, I'm pretty sure he would have mentioned that. But that's just my guess.

Offline nena

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2010, 06:16:50 PM »
Alexei started writing his diary in 1916. Yes, those Convoy photos indeed come from October 4h, 1913 -- according to the albums of Empress Alexandra.

One photo from the session :



However, this photo comes from Pierre Gillirad's collections, and it states that it was taken in 1914 at Livadia. (Russian Site). It can be wrong as well.

Russian site:

The first Alexei's dog ever mentioned , was Shot. What breed was that dog  -- it is not clear. Olga wrote on Oct. 18, 1914:

"... Alexei's Shot dead. He was buried today on the Island, and he is now his brother, also a Shot ... ".

What happened to the new pet, how long he had lived Alexei - not known. From the published letters and diaries of the tsar's children since 1914 hereinafter referred to only one dog Tsarevich - Spaniel (according to some sources Springer Spaniel) Joy.


Since the breed of Shot was not known, could be the Shot be in that photo taken in 1913? If the one of Alexei's photo on Livadia's balcony was taken in 1913. (With Joy).

EDIT: This is really confusing. We have to figure out was the photo of Alexei with a dog taken in 1913 or in 1914? I believe in 1913. But other statements claim that Joy was not mentioned but since 1914.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 06:25:27 PM by nena »
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Alexei and his spaniel Joy
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2010, 08:45:09 AM »
If I recall correctly, Aleksei's dog Shot is also mentioned in a letter or diary entry from the IF's captivity in Tobolsk -- I believe Shot played the canine role in "The Crystal Gazer."

So presumably Aleksei had both dogs at the same time, though Joy seems to have been his favorite.
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