Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes

[rskkiya]

 Guest Bob W.

I read your post about  CSG, his sexuality, his religious conversion &  IF obsession with some interest...but I have to admit that I was bothered by its subtle tone.

No doubt there may well be some prople here who might be- as you term it-"obsessed" with the Romanovs. Maybe so.  But only an indivdual can really judge whether he is  "obsessed"  or not. This cannot fairly be done by way of a chat group such as this. We may all have different reasons for being here.

Was CSG gay?  I don't know - only he could tell you...does it matter?

Did he convert to Orthodoxy because of an "obsession" or because he felt the truth of it? (this is an issue that I am wrestling with right now- so maybe I am overly sensitive!   )

You made some interesting comments, and I hope that you will find the posts of others here to be as thought provoking.

[Gerjo]

What was the name of the personal maid of Sydney Gibbes, who went with him in captivity to Tobolsk?

[Je_Reviens]

Hi, I looked into the Gibbs Collection last month after reading Frances Welch's The Romanovs and Mr. Gibbs.  Welch reports that the Gibbs Collection was/is part of the Lutton Hoo Foundation (Lutton Hoo being an estate house in England).  The Lutton Tourist Office emailed me saying that Lutton Hoo closed in the late 1990s.  They report that the  the Gibbs Collection was purchased by the Whener Collection in 1987 "for the marriage of Harold Whener into the Gibbs family."  The Luton Tourist Office got this information from Engish Heritage at Rangers House in London.  I have not been successful in tracking the Gibbs Collection further than that.  I am so curious where this personal, unique collection (as mentioned, the chandelier from the Grand Duchesses' bedroom, the Tsar's carpet slippers, etc) ended up...

[ChristineM]

J Stanley Gibbes adopted son died a few years ago.    As Father Nicholas, Gibbes hung the chandelier from the Grand Duchess' bedroom in the Ipatiev House, in the Russian Orthodox Church in Oxford.   I do not know if it still there.

As for his papers, the last I heard they were with Sotheby's where they repeatedly failed to reach their reserve price at auction.   Unfortunately the person who could have revealed much is also dead - the late John Stuart, formerly Sotheby's Russian expert.

tsaria

[lababoc]

let's not forget that  sexuality was not what it is nowadays  those were the "pre-Freud" years ...with Freud  new studies /  definitions   the concept of  sex and sexuallity  changed ....  by the  just found a  'little" book called THE ROMANOVS AND MR.GIBBES by Frances Welch  will start reading  it over the week end

[aussiechick12]

Wikipedia has heaps of information on him but no pictures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sydney_Gibbes

There is a small picture on Ipatiev House website, here it is:


Here is one from my collection:


Are there some of him with Olga and Tatiana at Livadia or is that Pierre Gillard I am thinking of?

[lababoc]

I think it's Pierre Gilliard     there is a picture of Mr. Gibbes as a priest  in the book THE ROMNANOVS AND MR GIBBES

[Sarushka]

Here are the pictures you're thinking of, Emma. They're definitely Gilliard.




This one is Gibbes with Anastasia:

[aussiechick12]

Yes, those were what I was thinking of. Thank you Sarushka!

[RealAnastasia]

If obsession has existed since the dawn of time, the Victorians, being the romantics they were, must have wallowed in benign, obsessive sentiments.  And consider that the Emperor, the Empress, and all the most loyal members of court, Mr. Gibbes among them, absolutely doted on the Imperial Children.

A friend of mine from church has remarked that the Tsesarevich was perhaps even 'too beautiful'.  'Not of this world', certainly....

I agree absolutely with your statement Ptitchka. I think that a teacher who spend many, many years of his life working for a family, must have been almost desperate when he knew what happened in Ekaterinburg. He, as a good teacher, must have loved Alexei almost as a second father, like most of teachers does. And much more in this case, when his pupil was the future Tsar of all Russias! I can't blame for being "obsessed" (a word I do not like very much) about this special boy. And yes...Alexei has a little angelic face that could make people think he was not from this world...But I think it's the same for her sisters.

It is a little sick to think that Gibbes could have loved the Tsarevich with other feelings than the ones of a devoted teacher. It's almost disgusting imagine this!

RealAnastasia.

[James1941]

Disgusting it may be, but it was very possible. Prince Carol of Romania's tutor was homosexual and had a crush on him, and there may well have been physical incidents which played a part in Carol's development.
Also it is speculated that one of Prince Eddy's teachers was homosexual and developed an obssession for him.
Gibbes may not have been an overt, practicing homosexual but he certainly was a closet one.

[Nadya_Arapov]

If obsession has existed since the dawn of time, the Victorians, being the romantics they were, must have wallowed in benign, obsessive sentiments.  And consider that the Emperor, the Empress, and all the most loyal members of court, Mr. Gibbes among them, absolutely doted on the Imperial Children.

A friend of mine from church has remarked that the Tsesarevich was perhaps even 'too beautiful'.  'Not of this world', certainly....

I never meant to suggest that Gibbes was obsessed with Alexei. The individual who started this thread brooched the subject of Alexei and Gibbes' relationship, not me. Personally, I seriously doubt that there was anything unhealthy, or inappropriate, about his feelings for Alexei. I only meant that obsession, and obsessive behavior, are hardly something that originated in the 20th Century.  They have, perhaps, reached a new zenith during the last century, however, with the advent of the movies, television, and the internet.

[RealAnastasia]

Disgusting it may be, but it was very possible. Prince Carol of Romania's tutor was homosexual and had a crush on him, and there may well have been physical incidents which played a part in Carol's development.
Also it is speculated that one of Prince Eddy's teachers was homosexual and developed an obssession for him.
Gibbes may not have been an overt, practicing homosexual but he certainly was a closet one.

I think that when we are speaking of History issues we must be very careful about our statesments. Of course, we know that Carol of Romania's tutor WAS homosexual and had a crush on him...But we cannot affirm that "may well have been physical incidents" between the young Crownprince and him, as well as we can't said "Gibbes may not having been an overy, practicing homosexual but.." This is dangerous. Not being but "maybe he was" always makes people think that most possibily he was...and we have NO PROOF of it, excepting the oversentimental things he wrote about the Tsarevich, and this way of writing was common back then.

It is like the topic about a possible rapping experienced by the Grand Duchess at the "Rus". We can't said they were raped; we can't said they weren't. So we must only state what we know about the events and that's all. If some new proof comes to the surface, we must publish it and discuss it, but not allow to ourselves this not scholar at all "maybe if..." that could confound people.

Oh, and I share all you said in your post, Nadia_Arapov.

RealAnastasia.

[dmitri]

I agree with RealAnastasia. People should be careful how they judge others. Most teachers would run a mile at the very thought of any involvement of any kind with a student. It is totally unsubstantiated and unverifiable to claim anything untoward about Gibbes. He was obviously a very good teacher otherwise he would have not kept his position. Naturally he would have been extremely devestated at the deaths of his former students. He knew them very well. I guess that is why he did not recognise Anna Anderson as he knew the Grand Duchess Anastasia perhaps better than many outside her immediate family circle.

[Ally Kumari]

I´m not sure if there are any memoirs by Mr. Sydney Gibbs. Could you helkp me?

And is it possible to find them somewhere on Internet?

Thank you