Author Topic: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes  (Read 40537 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2007, 04:04:21 PM »
The best you may be able to find is THE HOUSE OF SPECIAL PURPOSE by  J.C.  Trewin. It is based on Gibbes  papers. A slight volume but worth having.
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Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2007, 01:38:53 AM »
Thnaks:o)

The only problem is that what´s not on-line available is as it wouldn´t exist for me:)

The Amazon and other servers doesn´t seem to know where my country is and in Czech there are almost no such books.

I guess I´ll have to do without it.

Offline s.v.markov

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2007, 11:54:20 AM »
J.C. Trewin's book is probably the best one to start with. When it first came out in the UK in 1975 it was called 'Tutor to the Tsarevich', which was a much better title for a book mainly concerned with Gibbes' work as a teacher of the five children, and this first edition contained many coloured pictures of such things as the Grand Duchesses' paintings and some items (including a glass chandelier!!) which Gibbes managed to bring back to Oxford from Ekaterinburg. These coloured pictures were not included when Trewin's book was re-issued as 'The House of Special Purpose' in the 80's. There is another, longer biography of Gibbes published in the US, but the author's name escapes me at the moment. And then there is 'The Romanovs and Mr Gibbes' by Frances Welch (2002) ~ a short book which is mainly useful for the story of Gibbes' life after July 1918, and his experiences as a priest in Oxford with his adopted son George. For quite a long period the contents of Gibbes' famous box were kept quite near to where I live, and I was lucky enough to be able to examine them. The exercise books of the Grand Duchesses were especially moving to hold and read. All this is discussed in more detail in a section on the 'Books' thread.

VelkokneznaMaria ~ I am sorry you are not able to acquire these books to read for yourself. I saw 'The Romanovs and Mr Gibbes' for sale in Cambridge recently for less than £1 !! I'll buy it if it's still there next time. Keep an eye on the 'Duplicate Books' thread ~ there are some very generous members of the forum who often send books to one another. 

Offline duke felix

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2008, 11:26:41 AM »
I just read on Wikipedia, on the article on Demidova, and she was smitten with Gibbes, but that he was homosexual, of course, it coming from Wikipedia makes it relatively unreliable.

I wanted to know if anyone's come across this anywhere else, and how anyone could know, Homosexuality was illegal in both Britain & Russia until his time of death (1963).

Thanks!

Offline EmmyLee

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2008, 03:18:19 PM »
Yes, I have read that Gibbes was a homosexual.

Offline duke felix

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2008, 04:29:08 PM »
Seems quite strange, regrading that he was an Orthodox Monk in later life and Nicholas II certainly wouldn't have employed him had he known, even by standards of the day he was an ultra-conservative.

Offline StevenL

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2008, 08:14:34 PM »
Seems quite strange, regrading that he was an Orthodox Monk in later life and Nicholas II certainly wouldn't have employed him had he known,
even by standards of the day he was an ultra-conservative.

There is probably no evidence whatsoever that Gibbes was a practicing homosexual (if he ever was!) during the years of his service to the Romanovs.
In many cultures, the role of priest/shaman/medicine man provided a respectable profession to an array of "non-marrying types," including homosexuals.

Steven

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2008, 08:19:31 PM »
Numerous accounts agree that Gibbes was homosexual. However, I don't know whether he actually had a romantic relationship with *anyone* regardless of sexual preference.
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Offline StevenL

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2008, 09:30:29 PM »
Numerous accounts agree that Gibbes was homosexual. However, I don't know whether he actually had a romantic relationship with *anyone* regardless of sexual preference.

Based on reliable accounts of his own admission/actions?

Or is this another case of "profiling" based on people's assessment of his manners, etc.?

I don't doubt at all that he was gay, but I do think this is something that N & A would
never have tolerated in a tutor if they learned about it, or believed it. He must have been
fairly discreet in that period.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2008, 11:34:24 PM »
Seems quite strange, regrading that he was an Orthodox Monk in later life and Nicholas II certainly wouldn't have employed him had he known, even by standards of the day he was an ultra-conservative.

The word conservative has had various shades of meaning throughout history. Nicholas II was conservative in the traditional sense of that word - he was adverse to making sweeping changes, and preferred to "conserve" the status quo. Conservatives of this type generally do not concern themselves with another person's private sexual behavior provided that the person is discreet. In this way, it is perhaps understandable that at least one (and more likely two) of Nicholas' brothers in law were gay, and at least one tutor was gay. The judgemental attitudes of modern conservatives toward private behaviors was not part of Nicholas' world.

Offline BobG

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2008, 09:59:38 AM »
I don't doubt at all that he was gay, but I do think this is something that N & A would
never have tolerated in a tutor if they learned about it, or believed it. He must have been
fairly discreet in that period.

I think we continue to have the problem of thinking that today's openness about gays was something that existed during N & A time.  Clearly there were many practicing homosexuals (ie. GD Konstantine Konstantinovich (K.R.), G. D. Serge Alexandrovitch, and GD Ernest of Hesse come to mind).
But the idea that any of these men would openly acknowledge this is absurd. Most married and practiced their "secret" on the side.  I don't think any of their relatives would even speculate on their sex lives, even if they may have felt that they were more "artistic" than others.  I am sure Mr. Gibbes was not hired to "make a man" of the heir-- his father and the military staff took care of that and so even if he was blatantly "feminine" would not be a cause for worry. Think of the access Felix Yousupov had to the Imperial family.  I don't believe Alexandra would even think that anyone she might meet or know might be subject to such "perversions."  We have to try to understand the culture and wolrd of 1896-1917.

BobG

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2008, 12:21:12 PM »
Who said Gibbs was gay in the first place? I know it is often said but cannot recall where this first arose. Hde zeesm to have lived a simple life as tutor and then in Oxford as a monk after the revolution and one wonders when he had time for a "sex life".
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Offline tyumen

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2008, 01:22:35 PM »
This is where I first heard about it. On page 64 in FOTR. " During her service at court, Demidova became enamored of Charles Sydney Gibbes, The young English tutor to the imperial children.  The homosexual Gibbes, however,took no notice ; he once described her as of a singularly timid and shrinking disposition. "

Offline matushka

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2008, 03:02:40 PM »
And what is the source of FOTR? That is the major question!
According to Christine Benagh, author of "An Englishman in the Court of the Tsar", Gibbes had a girlfriend in Petrograd, miss Lora-Anna Keid (Sorry, I have a russian edition, and do not know to spell the name in english!). He know him since 1912. She worked with him at his English school in the town and they wanted to marry. But, for an unknown reason (perhaps the fact he prefers to go to Siberia?) their relashionship was broken and they never married. The source of Christine Benagh is George Gibbes, adoptive son of our teacher.
We will probably never know. Possibly he had some relationships. As for me, I higly doubt he had an homosexual life as an orthodox priest in England.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Mr Charles Sydney Gibbes
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2008, 03:45:35 PM »
Hde zeesm to have lived a simple life as tutor and then in Oxford as a monk after the revolution and one wonders when he had time for a "sex life".

Regardless of how Gibbes spent his time, sexual orientation and sexual activity are two entirely different matters.
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