Author Topic: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable?  (Read 19270 times)

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rskkiya

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2005, 04:46:06 PM »
Tsarfan
Should I bite you to communicate my rabid, evil, socialistic, ecologically concerned dogma to you, or ought I simply drone on and on and on and on?

rskkiya

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2005, 04:54:23 PM »
I like the droning.  It drowns out that pesky conscience of mine.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Tsarfan »

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2005, 05:16:57 PM »
Quote
The more that I consider this, the more I find myself looking to a national understanding or collective/group comprehension of "THE LAW" as being somewhere at  the root of this question.
    Of course Tsarfan and Elizabeth have wandered far from me, and I can scarcely catch up...{pant pant...gasp}

Do prepare your rotten fruit to throw my way.


Far from throwing any fruit your way, Rskkiya, I'm on the verge of agreeing with you... except that I don't yet know enough about the differences between Russia and the West in this area to make a judgment one way or the other. Can you enlighten us? I think you brought this up once before.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Elisabeth »
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rskkiya

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2005, 06:04:45 PM »
      Well I am no expert, but my perspective is this - under English 'common law' {a poor example, but it must suffice for the moment} the law was understood to control the behaviour and actions even of the most absolute monarchs, all were to be equal under the law- this was a concept understood by even the meanest serf, hence all the trouble my people had with various peasant revolts and in dealing with such Royal families like the "Stuarts"... (lol)

  {I am not a Cromwell fan, although I feel sure that my ancestors were most likely roundheads!}  :-X

    I don't think that a similar situation existed in Russia. I'm under the impression that in an autocratic system the tsar was able to create 'ad hoc' laws, but once again my knowledge of Tsarist law is very vague and I am no lawyer...

I may be wandering in Cloud Cuccoo Land about all of this.

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Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2005, 01:15:54 PM »
I think you might be on to something here, Rskkiya. To develop your idea, it also occurs to me that in a country like Russia where the laws were so arbitrary and so arbitrarily unjust, for so many centuries, that people might have eventually reached the point where they regarded the law as something to get around, not to obey. In other words, the very laws themselves would encourage law-breaking, almost as a matter of daily survival. Remember that until the mid-19th century, most Russians were serfs, and had few legal protections.

Certainly I have read that a peculiarly Russian "lawlessness" arose in the Soviet period, since the government was viewed as the enemy by most of its people - dangerous and not to be trusted. After all, the Soviet economy only worked to the extent that its black market worked. Once the communist regime fell and the state withdrew from industry, the mafia culture quickly leapt in to fill the void.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Elisabeth »
... I love my poor earth
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Offline Silja

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2005, 04:01:10 PM »
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, it also occurs to me that in a country like Russia where the laws were so arbitrary and so arbitrarily unjust, for so many centuries, that people might have eventually reached the point where they regarded the law as something to get around, not to obey.
  


It seems that Russians have indeed never held the laws or the judiciary in very high esteem. Unlike in the West people in Russia don't trust them. The current conditions in Russia may show yet again why this is the case. You cannot rely on them. However, and this is again the tragedy (?), considering the Russian people's reaction to the course of the Khodorkovsky trial, one realizes that apparently Russians don't mind about the judiciary being manipulated by the leaders of the land.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Silja »

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Russia's History vs. the West . . . Comparable
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2005, 09:17:50 PM »
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However, and this is again the tragedy (?), considering the Russian people's reaction to the course of the Khodorkovsky trial, one realizes that apparently Russians don't mind about the judiciary being manipulated by the leaders of the land.


Well, my husband just got back from Moscow and reports that all his friends and acquaintances and even the taxi drivers (who as you know are usually very reliable in terms of reporting popular opinion!) were roundly cursing Putin and his corrupt administration. The Khodorkovsky trial has a lot to do with this, also the rumor that Putin will be taking over as CEO of the largest gas company in Russia after his presidency ends. So maybe the famous patience of the Russian people is wearing out.
... I love my poor earth
because I have seen no other

-- Osip Mandelshtam