Author Topic: discussion about orthodox religion #1  (Read 71688 times)

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bluetoria

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2005, 07:11:23 AM »
What a brilliant discussion! I wish I could have stayed up & followed it as it happened :)

Perhaps I misunderstand some points & if I do, please forgive me if what I write contradicts anyone else's beliefs.
God, I think, is a passionate God; Jesus was passionate; John the Baptist was passionate...the martyrs, saints etc. God wants us to be passionate: "You are neither hot nor cold, I shall vomit you from my mouth!" Perhaps if our passions are turned inwards for our own satisfaction they may become destructive, but if we turn towards a greater goal - & to me the greatest goal must be the unity of all people (in fact all life) & God - then we need passion, as Helen says, as our driving force.

I agree with what Dashkova says about the difficulties of reconciling the intellect & faith, & empathise wholeheartedly with rskkiya (especially wondering about whether the idea to convert is simply because of the 'Russian thing') but I'm sure there is something else too.
Sometimes it seems there is a knowing (perhaps with the soul) which goes deeper than intellect, emotion or reason. It is an awareness of a something other (God) which draws us not by its aggression or our fear of hell but by such inexpressible beauty & love that we are almost powerless to resist. (I know this sounds airy-fairy - it's so hard to express!) The more we try to penetrate this mystery the more we are drawn & it shows in all the aspects of our lives & our dealings with other people.
In my - limited - experience, in ignoring this we often find great pleasure & can enjoy our selfishness for a while...but eventually there comes such a sense of emptiness. Conversely, when we follow it, even though our intellect rises against it & our initial reaction may be to draw back because all our natural inclinations lead us first to seek our own pleasures, the joy which follows goes beyond all human happiness.
To me this is what sin is. Not a cruel God setting out rules & sending us to hell - but a negative thing, in which we are not fully ourselves as we were created to be...it is a selfishness that separates us from the unity of all creation & because we are a part of creation, in damaging ourselves, we damage creation itself.
I don't think Christianity is about being 'good' or moral - many many atheists & agnostics are more moral than many Christians. Christianity means following Christ & His teaching...hopefully it should make Christians better & kinder & gentler etc. but we are all still human & still fail.
Sorry for rambling. I might be wrong in all of this :-/
I like this quotation:
"Forthose who believe no explanation is necessary. For those who don't believe no explanation is possible."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline JM

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2005, 07:25:24 AM »
Quote
But isn't every adult responsible for his or her own soul? I would hate to be responsible for someone's soul based on something  that may have came out of my mouth! I'd be in a lot of trouble then!  :o ;D

OoH, I love soul debates! We had one a few weeks ago and we were strongly discouraged from bring in religion so we had to think of new ways to define the soul. The resolution itself was "BIRT we have sold our souls." But yeah, our whole thing was that we had sold our souls for individualism. It would have worked perfectly but we weren't able to attend! Oh well, I get to judge some junior soul debates this week and I can't wait to see where they're going to take it. :D

bluetoria

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2005, 06:15:36 PM »
Could any Orthodox person please tell me REALLY simply, where the differences lie between Catholicism & Orthodoxy. So far (apart from the Pope) I have found none.  :)

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2005, 06:47:51 PM »
 Iitems that come to mind- the Trinity and the nature of it/them.
The divine & human natures of Christ.
Of course the interpretation of the Gospels and the order of bishops are other obvious issues.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2005, 07:03:06 PM »
Original sin vs ancesteral sin
The use of statues vs images (Icons)
The use of unleavened vs leavened bread
Immaculate Conception of Mary vs her being born with normal human nature and ability to sin (but she never acted on this inclination)

Celebate clergy vs marriage before ordination otherwise celebate
Use of musical instruments vs accapello(sp?!)
These are a few more off hand that I can think of but there's heaps more, especially since Vatican II.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2005, 07:34:43 PM »
I thought the bread & the celbate clergy [RC can have married clergy] were decided to be canon as opposed to doctrainal issues.
Been a whilke since I was into all this...
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2005, 07:55:47 PM »
I don't know if it is doctrinal or canonical. But I have never heard that the RC has married Priests. I thought they were all supposed to be celebate. Can you tell me more about this?

Offline cjred685

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2005, 07:59:08 PM »
RC Priests are supposed to be celebate. I believe Robert might be confusing RC with Episcopalian (sp?) - English Catholic - where preists are allowed to marry
Souls entwine one more time....

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2005, 08:04:23 PM »
Eastern Rite Catholics may be married, as can Western rite priests in certain orders- these are usually cases where a married couple decide to both "retire" their marriage and enter Holy Orders.
It is not common, but is entirely possible.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2005, 08:08:36 PM »
Thanks for clarifying that. I forgot about the Uniates!

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2005, 08:08:49 PM »
btw- "celebate' does not neccessarily rule out being married. It does rule out the sexual contact of marriage.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline cjred685

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2005, 08:10:26 PM »
That's interesting....please forgive the stupid question but when they retire their marriage and enter holy orders then what are they considered? He would be called a priest (correct?) but what would she then become? or is she just his unnamed partner? and would they in turn support the celebate ways that the Western RC clergy support?
Souls entwine one more time....

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2005, 08:17:49 PM »
In the Roman [Western] rite, they remain married, it is a sacrament, but go seperate ways- he would go to whatever order or diocese that has ordained him, she to whatever convent she choose. They simply take new vows and recieve a new sacrament [well, he does, the convent is not strictly "Holy Orders"].
In the Eastern Rite, it is pretty much the same as the Orthodox.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline cjred685

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2005, 08:28:29 PM »
Thank you for that explaination   :)  I enjoy reading these discussions....always learn something new and always end up with more questions to ask :-)
Souls entwine one more time....

Offline Dennis

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Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2005, 08:36:19 PM »
Interesting that this discussion is going on during the annual Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.  See:  www.wcc-coe.org;
www.vatican-va; www.uaoc.org/weekofprayer.html; www.elca.org.

All Christians know that there is far more that unites them than separates them.  All traditional, Biblical Christians share a common faith in the Triune God, the holy Scriptures, and the faith as it is confessed in the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds.

One reason why all of those German Protestant Princesses, including Ella and Alix, could become Orthodox is because they never had to renounce the basic Christianity that they had been taught from childhood.  

Yes, there are manmade rules about clerical celibacy, rituals, etc., but those rules are secondary to the actual faith as understood within the various churches.  

Folks who seek to understand any faith or religion must take it upon themselves to learn, read, and come to understand as best they can from the leaders of that religion itself.
Dennis