Author Topic: discussion about orthodox religion #1  (Read 70548 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #195 on: February 01, 2005, 04:08:26 PM »
And, you are right Helen, lots of people, religious or no, do tend to say one thing and do another. In this respect I am chief among sinners. How often I find myself confessing the same things, time after time! I know what is broken, yet don't want to put in the hard slog and effort to do the work of fixing things up. :(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Georgiy »

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #196 on: February 01, 2005, 04:25:58 PM »
But Orthodoxy doesn't say we are sinners in the womb. Rather we are born into a world that has been infected (as it were) by sin, and we soak up the vibes.

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #197 on: February 01, 2005, 04:48:04 PM »
That's OK if you want to go and take a nap!
We all have our own points of view, but I will say again that we are not sinners in the womb. Orthodoxy does not teach that. Neither are we guilty in any way of Adam's sin. We are only guilty of our own sins (and we have to be born before we can start sinning.)

Who among us is innocent of sin? The main problem is that we are so busy looking for the tiny speck in someone else's eye that we do not see the great big log in our own eye - that is, we seem to be more concerned with discerning other people's faults, but completely ignore our own, when it is our own that we need to be fixing up.

Offline JM

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #198 on: February 01, 2005, 04:49:08 PM »
Quote
I think religion has not improved life on earth one bit and has actually destroyed more than it has built. That is the material point.

I respectfully have to disagree. Of course almost every religion at one time or another played the "vandal" and destroyed what the preceeding religion had built up. However, after the initial destructive phase, the invading religion will build up civilization again! Besides, for almost as long as human have been humans, we have had some sort of spirituality/religion; and I don't think that we've been in a decline since we've emerged from the cave!

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #199 on: February 01, 2005, 04:52:23 PM »
Quote

The bible is soaked with that sin stuff.



If the Old Testament is, as you claim,  'soaked in sin stuff', it is quickly absorbed by the love & forgiveness of the New Testament....the whole point of Christianity.

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #200 on: February 01, 2005, 04:54:49 PM »
Quote
What I mean is, if this is all there is, then we should make the most of it!


Yes, but not the way you describe.

And please don't tell me you think that the "religious" people do not behave the way described?

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #201 on: February 01, 2005, 04:56:22 PM »
Quote

Who among us is innocent of sin?


1. Define sin.

2. No matter how you define sin, a newborn child is innocent of any sin.

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
the love & Re: discussion about orthodox relig
« Reply #202 on: February 01, 2005, 04:57:23 PM »
Quote
the love & forgiveness of the New Testament....the whole point of Christianity.



Some of you may recall the woman caught in adultery, who they were wanting to stone. Jesus said let he who is without sin be the first to throw a stone. He looked down and appeared to be writing on the ground, when He looked up the woman was alone, and He asked if no one then had condemned her, and when she said no, He said, neither then do I condemn you, go and sin no more.  
Tradition says that what Jesus was scribbling on the ground was a list of the sins that the accusers had committed.

Love is the most important thing. Sin drives away love, or misappropriates it.

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #203 on: February 01, 2005, 04:58:22 PM »
Quote
...for almost as long as human have been humans, we have had some sort of spirituality/religion; and I don't think that we've been in a decline since we've emerged from the cave!


Define "decline"  ;)

Offline JM

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #204 on: February 01, 2005, 05:00:21 PM »
Quote
No matter how you define sin, a newborn child is innocent of any sin.

But what if you defined sin as something that we're all born with?  ;)

Never say "no matter how you define."  8)

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: the love & discussion about orthodox relig
« Reply #205 on: February 01, 2005, 05:00:37 PM »
Quote
Sin drives away love, or misappropriates it.
 Define "sin". Isn't it kind of a flexible term, depending on whom you speak to? Each religion has a different definition it seems...

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #206 on: February 01, 2005, 05:01:35 PM »
Quote
But what if you defined sin as something that we're all born with?  ;)

Never say "no matter how you define."  8)


I am still waiting for the definition of "sin" then, because I obviously don't understand it.

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #207 on: February 01, 2005, 05:03:21 PM »
Quote
1. Define sin.
 
2. No matter how you define sin, a newborn child is innocent of any sin.


Sin means 'to miss the mark' or 'to fall short'. This is what I was told as a catechumen, so I presume it is what the Greek word can be broken down to mean.

Yes a newborn is innocent of sin. But born into a world where there is sin, and this will affect it sooner or later.

Quote
please don't tell me you think that the "religious" people do not behave the way described?


I wouldn't describe people that behave that way as being religious (in a Christian sense), no matter how religious they thought they were. People that behave like that have only one true god - their own body. If they profess to be Christian then they are hypocrites. Once again this is something I detect in myself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Georgiy »

Offline JM

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #208 on: February 01, 2005, 05:04:52 PM »
Quote

Define "decline"  ;)

Well, as Webster would say, "to tend toward an inferior state or weaker condition." I have to agree.  ;)

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: discussion about orthodox religion
« Reply #209 on: February 01, 2005, 05:05:15 PM »
Quote

Sin means 'to miss the mark' or 'to fall short'.


I don't understand what this means. Would you be a little more specific? How can someone sin if they miss the mark, if they don't know what the mark is?