Author Topic: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption  (Read 95305 times)

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Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2006, 02:18:09 AM »
But I doubt that MarieCharlotte will be convinced. I´m curious what she says, when he returns to our topic.

Hehe ...  :D What you wrote makes sense, britt, but I still have doubts. Why do you think it was painted by Winterhalter? Even if he was the painter, I have never read in one of my many books about the Wittelsbachs that he came to Munich to paint one of Maximilian's daughters. Amalie married in 1822 and as the painting is known as "Amalie von Bayern", it must have been painted before 1822. Do you really think that the 17-year-old Winterhalter (you said he was born in 1805!) came to court and painted a Princess?! I don't. They had Stieler for that.
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2006, 06:39:17 AM »
Nice that you are back here...
It´s really a strange mystery, I must say, especially because you have read that Maximilians daughters were never painted by Winterhalter. From the other facts it would fit, but this is indeed strange. May it be that it was made by Stieler and Winterhalter helped somewhere? Also quite strange :-\ I hope that there will be a solution once, because I always thought that this is Sisis aunt Amalie...strange. What do you think about the appearance? Does it fit? I am not such an expert, but I think it could fit from the type of face etc to the other daughters of Max. I suppose somewhere must be a mistake, but where?

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Agneschen

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2006, 10:36:05 AM »
This portrait is  identified as Princess Amélie of Bayern by Winterhalter on the RMN (Réunion des Musées Nationaux) website. It is located in Compiègne so I thought that she might be Princess Amalia Auguste who married the Duke of Leuchtenberg. As I did not check her dates, I do not know whether she might have been painted by Winterhalter. Her hair & dress do not look Empire though and it seems to me Amalia was dark haired but that is the only possibility I see. The other alternative being that it is misidentified.

Offline Yseult

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2006, 11:22:49 AM »
This portrait is  identified as Princess Amélie of Bayern by Winterhalter on the RMN (Réunion des Musées Nationaux) website. It is located in Compiègne so I thought that she might be Princess Amalia Auguste who married the Duke of Leuchtenberg. As I did not check her dates, I do not know whether she might have been painted by Winterhalter. Her hair & dress do not look Empire though and it seems to me Amalia was dark haired but that is the only possibility I see. The other alternative being that it is misidentified.

Reading your post, I was asking myself if the identification could be wrong but not entirely wrong...I explain myself: the lady do not look Empire, but after Empire, but princess Amalia Auguste had a daughter by Eugene of Beauharnais duke of Leuchtenberg named after her, Amalia Auguste, who became empress of Brazil...Can be this girl?

PD: I´am not idea, but I try to make suggestions...

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2006, 02:41:03 PM »
Yseult, thank you for your suggestions.  ;) The Duchess of Leuchtenberg's name was Auguste Amalie. Her half-sister, the Queen of Saxony, had the same names, but the other way around (Amalie Auguste).

If the young woman was Amélie, Auguste of Leuchtenberg's daughter, why should she be called of Bavaria ? That doesn't make sense. Amélie was born in 1812.

A pic of Amélie:

Ich aber breite trauernd aus
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Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2006, 02:45:40 PM »

What about Amalie Duchess of Oldenburg (1818-1875) who married Prince Otto, King of Greece, in 1836? But I think her hair was much darker and when she married Otto he had already been King of Greece ... so the title of the painting must have been Amalie of Greece or something like that.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
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Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Rani

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2006, 02:53:15 PM »
It really looks like her!  :D

Offline britt.25

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2006, 02:03:07 PM »
Yseult, thank you for your suggestions.  ;) The Duchess of Leuchtenberg's name was Auguste Amalie. Her half-sister, the Queen of Saxony, had the same names, but the other way around (Amalie Auguste).

If the young woman was Amélie, Auguste of Leuchtenberg's daughter, why should she be called of Bavaria ? That doesn't make sense. Amélie was born in 1812.

A pic of Amélie:




Yes, I think this, too. As far as I know they carried the name Beauharnais (or dukes of Leuchtenberg). Not right? Even if Napoleons stepson married a Wittelsbach the descendants did not carry this name, but their fathers one. So I think. Or did anyone of them have the right to add their mothers name? I don´t think so.
I also had the idea that the lady on the picture, could have been the wife of Eugène Beauharnais, as she carries also the name Amalie, but it´s only second name and the other way around. But maybe they could have made the mistake and turned it...but I am not convinced at all.

This is the mentioned queen of Greece (I hope this pic is correct) In my view the girl on our Winterhalter picture does not resemble her much, but much more the daughters of Max of Bavaria and Caroline of Baden...But that´s only my opinion.



What do the others think?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2006, 02:28:34 AM by MarieCharlotte »
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Offline regensburg

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2006, 03:25:12 PM »


This is undoubtedly the same woman as the portrait. She is Amalie (1834-1905) married to Adalbert of Bavaria (1828-1875).
Here they are depicted together and the features are unmistakable :)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2006, 02:26:48 AM »
Never ever. We've talked about Princess Adalbert von Bayern before and as umigon said: She's too fat!  ;)
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Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2006, 08:48:07 AM »
I don´t know. From the time this would better fit than my possibility from before. This portrait was painted between 1852 and 1871 it is said on the page of the "reunion des musees nationaux", so it could be her. The face is not so bad, some features do fit on this picture (rather than on the wikipedia picture) maybe she had been thinner, when young? Maybe this is really the only possibily, but one thing, which makes also doubts is that on the picture I sent here, Amalie of Spain of much more dark, I don´t think that she was so blonde like the pic of Winterhalter. :o
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Offline Yseult

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2006, 02:22:20 AM »
I don´t know who is the blond girl portrayed, but to clarify if she could be our  infanta Amalia, I was searching for pictures of the princess, but I haven´t found it. But she was a daughter of infante Francisco de Paula, a brother of Ferdinand VII, and Luisa Carlota of Naples, a sister of Maria Cristina, fourth wive of Ferdinand VII. I have found images of Amalia´s mother, Luisa Carlota. Judge yourself!








Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2006, 06:59:54 AM »
I don´t know who is the blond girl portrayed, but to clarify if she could be our  infanta Amalia, I was searching for pictures of the princess, but I haven´t found it. But she was a daughter of infante Francisco de Paula, a brother of Ferdinand VII, and Luisa Carlota of Naples, a sister of Maria Cristina, fourth wive of Ferdinand VII. I have found images of Amalia´s mother, Luisa Carlota. Judge yourself!

Daughters don't have to be the spitting image of their mothers.  ;) I don't look like my mother at all.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


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Offline britt.25

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2006, 02:45:51 PM »
It´s difficult only to decide from the pictures, there must be proof for any of the solutions to find, but how ???
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

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Offline umigon

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Re: Help with Photo ID and/or Caption
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2006, 10:35:18 AM »
That's what I meant earlier in this thread: the lady in the picture certainly has facial features similar to those of Francisco de Paula's children. But she seems to belong to a previous period, doesn't she?
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