Author Topic: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I  (Read 210465 times)

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Offline KarlandZita

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #375 on: December 10, 2009, 12:40:54 PM »
In fact, I think that Francois Joseph felt that the heir, although in the second, of the Austro-Hungarian throne must marry a princess after a royal or princely house belonging to the first part of Gotha. Otherwise, Karl would have made an unfortunate marriage that could not afford the heir to the throne.
Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline Felix Culpa

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #376 on: December 14, 2009, 11:32:49 PM »
Title Zita, the last empress of Austria: the story of Her Imperial and Royal Majesty Zita of Habsburg-Lorraine and her sojourn in Québec City, 1940-1950
Author Leo J. Hammerschmid
Publisher Meridian Press, 1989
ISBN 0929058054, 9780929058054
Length 352 pages

Fantastic----thank you!  I will definitely look that up!

Offline Felix Culpa

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #377 on: December 14, 2009, 11:42:27 PM »
The New Liturgical Movement writes:

"Many readers will rejoice -- fittingly on this Gaudete Sunday -- to learn that last Thursday, 10 December 2009, the Cause of Beatification of the Servant of God Zita, last Empress of Austria and wife of Blessed Emperor Charles, was solemnly opened by His Excellency Msgr. Yves Le Saux, Bishop of Le Mans, France. "

Rest of the article here:
http://networkedblogs.com/p20846877

The story has been picked up by a couple of monarchist bloggers already.  Andrew Cusack in particular has an excellent article of his own here:
http://www.andrewcusack.com/2009/12/13/zita-cause/

The Association for her Beatification is here:
http://www.beatification-imperatrice-zita.org/
It is quite new, and the information has not been translated from French yet.  But if you read French, go ahead and visit:  the material is very good. 

A good complement would be the Association for the Beatification of Karl, here:
http://www.emperorcharles.org/



Offline Felix Culpa

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #378 on: December 14, 2009, 11:46:59 PM »
It was said that Karl was in love with a Princess von Hohenlohe before Zita and that Franz Josef said to him to search for another bride...can anyone tell me who was she?

It was Bella Hohenlohe - Isabella (1891-1982), daughter of Gottfried Hohenlohe-Langenburg.

I'd not read this before----what were the circumstances?  Were they actually engaged or anything?

Offline Maximilano

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #379 on: December 15, 2009, 12:09:22 AM »
Archduke Charles had no choice but to marry into the Red Gotha. Borbon Parma is in the Red Gotha.

When Karl Married Zita there were very few Archdukes left.

Franz Ferdinand did marry a Countess but as she was not part of the red Gotha he made a morganatic marriage. He could accede to the throne but not his children who became the title of Furst von Hohenberg (Prince).

It was always speculated that once in the throne Franz Ferdinand being the Kaiser would revoke or annul one of the paragraphs of the 1848 constitution which referred to the marriage rules of the House of Austria. He could also change the constitution wit 66% of the votes of the Duma or parliament.

Karl was "ordered" to marry Zita, as Kaiser Franz Joseph had certain difficulties with Franz Ferdinand and wanted to make sure that Karl would marry according to the rules of the house.

Offline newfan

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #380 on: December 15, 2009, 01:05:15 AM »
Felix this book can be very $$$ so try to do inerlibrary loan.I am not sure where you live but most libraries in Usa have program with other libraries.Here is a link for the book in worldcat
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/26260506

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #381 on: December 15, 2009, 04:42:41 AM »
Great news!, I didn't know that the Cause of Beatification were opened on 10 December, this is a surprise for me, thank you for the links!

About the web site of the association for her Beatification, fortunately I can read French (although not perfectly), but I hope that they will open the Italian (my language) section soon.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 04:44:15 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »

Offline Marc

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #382 on: December 15, 2009, 04:47:30 AM »
Any details about Karl and Bella?Were they seeing each other or he just had a crush on her?I know that she married Prince Alfred von Windisch-Gratez who was a cousin of Prince Otto Weriand von Windisch-Graetz who married Archduchess Elisabeth...

It seems that Franz Josef had double standards considering marriage rules...he urged Prince Otto to marry his granddaughter Elisabeth Marie and yet he was in part II(mediatized) of Gotha just like Hohenlohe-Langenburg family...and yet Karl's brother Maximilian married in palace Laxenburg Princess Franziska zu Hohenlohe-Waldenburg-Schillingsfürst,but this wasunder his brother's reign...maybe Karl remembered his own case and allowed his brother to marry a Hohenlohe princess...

Offline Maximilano

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #383 on: December 15, 2009, 10:33:45 AM »
It seems that Franz Josef had double standards considering marriage rules...

Absolutely no, he was a purist and followed the rules by the book. There were rules for marriage outside and inside the Donau Monarchy.  Rules were laid out at constitutional level in 1848 so that "Nobody" in principle could change them.

I said previously, changes to the constitution needed the approval of 66% of the Duma.

Franz Ferdinand disregarded the rules as heir to the throne and paid for it. Kaiser Franz Joseph did not bend the rules.

Offline KarlandZita

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #384 on: December 15, 2009, 12:27:37 PM »
I am delighted to hear such an initiative. I always thought that Zita equally deserved to be beatified that Charles. It was really a holy woman who lived throughout her life with faith, determination and courage in drawing its strength and determination in support of religion.
Reginei Mama Elena a Romaniei

Offline Marc

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #385 on: December 15, 2009, 01:31:37 PM »
Ok,I understand that...but did he change his will due to his granddaughters wishes and forced Prince von Windisch-Graetz into marriage?He didn't allow this when his heir Archduke Karl was in question...

Offline beladona

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #386 on: December 15, 2009, 02:49:50 PM »
Ok,I understand that...but did he change his will due to his granddaughters wishes and forced Prince von Windisch-Graetz into marriage?He didn't allow this when his heir Archduke Karl was in question...

I understand what you mean, Marc, and I agree with you. But do not forget, that Elisabeth was "only" woman, but Karl was heir of the throne and his wife should be next Empress. And, in that case, Hohenlohe was not good enough. I think Franz Josef could remember problems, which has his young wife at Vienna court with her own ancestry - her grandmother (!) being "only" Arenberg...

Offline Marc

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #387 on: December 15, 2009, 03:45:42 PM »
True,you got the point ;) I only thought about the fact that family rules are being much more strict towards males than females or the case with Elisabeth Marie was just an exception?Don't count other branches and their Isenburg/Hohenlohe-Bartenstein/Croy-Dulmen/Hohenlohe-Waldenburg-Schillingsfurst/Salm-Salm intermarriages until 1918...

Offline beladona

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Re: Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part I
« Reply #388 on: December 15, 2009, 04:30:46 PM »
It´s difficult to say. We are talking now about the times around 1900 when this rules was not so strictly respected as before - see the intermarriages you wrote about. Archdukes ad Archduchessess could choose to marry some members from mediatized princely families but always to catholic ones :)  I don´t think the rules were more strict towards men, I think Elisabeth Maria was a special case - she just insisted on her choice and as a beloved granddaugher of Emperor she knew that her granpa will finaly agree :). But except some marriages of Archduchesses to members of families as Salm, Hohenlohe or Isenburg, there are in fact no real morganatic marriages of any Archduchesses in 19th century (except Luisa Habsburg-Toskana) contraty to for example Archduke John (with Anna Plochl), Archduke Heinrich (to Leopoldine Hoffman) or Archduke Leopold Savator (to his prostitutes) etc....