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Topic: The Bagrations  (Read 25414 times)
Reply #15
« on: April 22, 2006, 12:37:37 PM »
David_Pritchard
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[size=14]
Quote
It´s more easy to explaine that way:
Royal House of Bagration - Head Bagration-Muhranski family as eldest line of Bagration family

Royal House of Georgia - Head Gruzinski family because this is a direct male line of last King of Georgia

If Bagration-Muhranski family say that they are Royal House of Georgia, it`s not serious Grin
because last king from  Bagration-Muhranski line was in Georgia in XV century! Wink

You see - strange woman Leonida troubled not only Romanov family...

David"Most importantly, Prince Georgi has three sons and one daughter where as Prince Nugzar Gruzinsky has only two daughters. "

Dear David, heirs of Royal House of Georgia are Prince Piotr Gruzinski and his son  Prince Jevgeni Gruzinski.


winniepooh,

It would seem that you have made up your mind as to which line of the Bagratids has the rightful claim to the Throne. The Princes Gruzinsky whom you put forth, still have the problem of no male heirs under the age of 59, the lack of familial ties to other royal houses, no connections in international society and impovrishment. Fifty years from now, this line will be extinct and the Bagration-Moukranskys will not even have paper rivals, let alone serious rivals.

It should be noted that the Princes Gruzinsky were thought to have been an extinct line of the Bagratid House for well over fifty years until the few remaining members were re-discovered in independent Georgia. They do not press their claims nor do they have the funds or supporters to do so.

I did however note your odd and disparaging comment about HIH Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna, born a Princess Bagration-Moukransky. Have you even met the grand duchess or are your comments based simply on heresay or a personal motive?

David Pritchard[/size][/font]

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Reply #16
« on: April 23, 2006, 01:15:53 AM »
winniepooh Offline
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"I did however note your odd and disparaging comment about HIH Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna, born a Princess Bagration-Moukransky"

Leonida don`t support Romanovs and Bagrations and it is very strange...

"this line will be extinct"

No, this line exist and it is very bad move say that they don`t exist .

"Romanovs don`t exist, Bagrations don`t exist..." Romanovs exist! Real Romanovs ! And real Royal House of Georgia exist!
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Reply #17
« on: April 23, 2006, 02:14:32 PM »
Maximilian Offline
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Thank you very much David and Winni.

Conclusions:

• Thus if I understand the current Head of the Royal family of Georgia is his Royal Highness Prince Nukzar Petrovich Grouzinky because he is the direct descendent in the male line of the last king of Georgia. And the heir presumptive is his Royal Highness Prince Peter Petrovich.

• Princess Leonida did not belong to the last reining family of Georgia. She is indeed a descendent of kings of Georgia. But she isn't and she wasn’t  a member of the current royal family of Georgia.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Maximilian » Logged
Reply #18
« on: April 23, 2006, 03:28:34 PM »
David_Pritchard
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Quote
Thank you very much David and Winni.

Conclusions:

• Thus if I understand the current Head of the Royal family of Georgia is his Royal Highness Prince Nukzar Petrovich Grouzinky because he is the direct descendent in the male line of the last king of Georgia. And the heir presumptive is his Royal Highness Prince Peter Petrovich.

• Princess Leonida did not belong to the last reining family of Georgia. She is indeed a descendent of kings of Georgia. But she isn't and she wasn’t  a member of the current royal family of Georgia.

[size=14]Grand Duchess Leonida belongs to the senior Bagratid line, Line 1. Her late brother Prince Irakly Georgievich was the senior male of the entire Bagratid Dynasty. This senior genealogical branch had been the Kings of Georgia before they were overthrown by Line VI.

The head of Line VI of the Bagratid Dynasty and the Serene Princely House of Grouzinsky is Prince Nukzar Petrovich (age 59) and his heir is Prince Peter Petrovich (age 90). The last King of Georgia belonged to Line VI.

Line one claims to be the rightful Royal House of Georgia based on male priomogeniture genealogy from the start of the dynasty some 1000 plus years ago and Line VI claims to be the rightful Royal House of Georgia based on male priomogeniture genealogy descent from the last King of Georgia.

David[/size]
[/b]
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Reply #19
« on: April 23, 2006, 03:49:58 PM »
winniepooh Offline
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"to be the rightful "

Of course Bagration-Moukransky line is the rightful senior Bagratid line.
if they want: House of Bagration, Royal House of Bagration ...
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Reply #20
« on: September 02, 2006, 06:19:10 AM »
miller99 Offline
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Note:
Although the Head of the House of Bagration-Mukhranski claims to be Head of the Royal House of Georgia, there is no historical, customary or legal justification for this claim. Salic laws of succession never applied to any of the Georgian Kingdoms. Indeed the final unification of the kingdoms of Kartli and Kakheti rests on female inheritance. There are numerous descendants in the natural and female lines, of the Houses of Kakheti and Kartli, and of Imereti, possessing superior claims to Regalty.

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Georgia/georgia.htm

NOBILITY:Copyright ©Christopher Buyers
The Georgian nobility was largely organised on a military basis, the army being divided into several corps represented by "banners" (or drosha), each commanded by the great grandees of the realm. These grandees were petty sovereigns within their own domains, enjoying the power of life and death, but owing allegience to the king. During the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the order of precedence was as follows:

1) H.M. The Most High King.
2) Princes of the Blood (batonishvili).
3) Great Officers of State:
a) Patriarch-Catholicos.
b) Chief Secretary (Mtsignobarth-Ukhutsesi).
c) Lord High Steward (Mandaturth-Ukhutsesi).
d) Lord High Constable (Amir-Spasalari).
e) Lord High Treasurer (Medchurchleth-Ukhutsesi).
f) Lord Great Chamberlain (Msakhurth-Ukhutsesi).
g) Grand Armourer (Meahjret-Ukhutsesi).

4) Grandees of the first class (Sul-didibuli-tavadi) of the Kingdom of Kartli, commanders of banners (drosha):
a) Prince of Mukhrani (Mukhrani-batoni), head of the house of Bagrationi-Mukhrani.
http://www.4dw.net/royalark/Georgia/nobility.htm

You see - princes Bagration -Muhranski were not a Princes of the Blood in Kingdom of Georgia.
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Reply #21
« on: July 12, 2007, 02:13:58 PM »
Maximilian Offline
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Prince NUKZAR PETROVICH GROUZINSKY, b at Tbilisi 25 Aug 1950, film producer, succ his father as senior representative of the Royal House of Kartli and Kakheti, 1984, m at ……. 10 Feb 1971 Leyla Georgievna Kipiani (b at …….. 16 Jul 1947), and had issue,

1. Princess Anna Nukzarovna, b at Tbilisi 1 Nov 1976.

2. Princess Maya Nukzarovna, b at Tbilisi 2 Jan 1978


I believe that the salic law don’t apply to the royal house of Georgia, I wonder if the eventual descendents of Princess Anna and Maya Nukzarovna of Georgia can claim the headship of the Royal house.
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Reply #22
« on: July 25, 2007, 12:42:05 PM »
Maximilian Offline
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I wonder who is the current head of the Serene House of Imerinsky ? Can they claim the headship of the royal house of Georgia? Also i wonder if princess Anna Nukzarovna of Grouzinsky can claim the headship of the Serene House of Grouzinsky after her father ?
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Reply #23
« on: December 24, 2007, 10:00:34 AM »
Norbert Offline
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in 1995 BBC reported that Shevardnadze had restored the monarchy in Georgia and " a second-hand car salesman living in Spain" was considering his prospects. Did anything come of this? I can't think it was an April fool ? I presume the Spanish claiment was Prince Bagrat son of  infanta Mercedes of Bavaria ?
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Reply #24
« on: January 21, 2008, 01:36:55 AM »
Lucien Offline
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Prince George Bagration,pretender to the Throne of Georgia,passed away in Tiflis,Georgia aged 63.

http://www.lavanguardia.es/lv24h/20080116/53427819181.html
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Je Maintiendrai
Reply #25
« on: March 23, 2008, 02:54:13 PM »
Constantinople
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is Inés Bagration-Mukhrani a member of the family
She lives in Spain and is a friend of a friend
Kind regards
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Reply #26
« on: March 26, 2008, 02:51:14 AM »
miller99 Offline
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HRH Prince Nugzar of Georgia or Nugzar Bagration-Gruzinsky or Nugzar Bagrationi
 
Born August 25, 1950 (1950-08-25)
Tbilisi, Georgia

Pretend from 1984
Monarchy abolished 1800
Last monarch George XII of Georgia
Connection with great-great-great grandson
Royal House Bagrationi
Father Prince Petre Bagration-Gruzinski
Mother Liya Mgeladze
Spouse Leila Kipiani
Children Princess Anna, Princess Maya
Predecessor Petre Bagration-Gruzinski
HRH Prince Nugzar of Georgia  (born August 25, 1950, in Tbilisi, Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic) is the head of the Royal House of Georgia and a  Head of the Royal House of Georgia.

Biography.
Prince Nugzar is the son of Prince Petre Bagration-Gruzinski of Georgia (1920-1984), a prominent poet and claimant to the Headship of the Royal House of Georgia from 1939 to 1984 and his second wife Liya Mgeladze (b. August 8, 1926). Prince Nugzar is the director of the Tbilisi theatre of cinema artists.

On 18 December 2007 Nugzar met with Kristiina Ojuland, the Vice-President of the Riigikogu (the parliament of Estonia) at the Mariott-Tbilisi hotel in which Ojuland "paid homage to the Bagrationi dynasty who has made an extraordinary contribution to the upholding of Georgia".

Currently, Prince Nugzar is the senior descendent in the male line of George XII, the last King of Georgia. Historian Raul Chagunava who has researched the Bagrationi family believes Bagration-Gruzinsky is the rightful heir to the throne. Nino Bagrationi a 90-year-old direct descendant of king Solomon II of Imeretia also recognizes the claim of Bagration-Gruzinsky.[4] After Nugzar the next senior descendant in the male line is Prince Peter Bagration-Gruzinsky (b. 1916) followed by his son Prince Eugene (b. 1947).


 Family.
Nugzar was married to Leila Kipiani (b. Tbilisi July 16, 1947) on February 10, 1971 and they have two daughters:

Princess Anna of Georgia b. Tbilisi November 1, 1976
Princess Maya of Georgia b. Tbilisi January 2, 1978

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Reply #27
« on: March 26, 2008, 02:53:10 AM »
miller99 Offline
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Reply #28
« on: January 15, 2009, 09:31:12 AM »
Marc Offline
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The wedding has been anounced between Prince David Bagration-Moukhransky and Princess Anna Bagration-Grudzinsky....

What do you think:love match or arranged marriage between two branches of the same family?
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Reply #29
« on: January 23, 2009, 02:17:02 PM »
Maximilian Offline
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That would be of course an arranged marriage. But a perfect one. Of course a perfect arranged marriage in the 21st Century it is possible. I am very happy for the couple, I wish the same for Grand Duke George of Russia, and I wish he married to one of his morganatic cousins. This would put an end to the dynastic problems.
My congratulations to the new royal house of Georgia.
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