Author Topic: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich  (Read 222700 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #465 on: July 22, 2009, 09:03:24 AM »
Yes, an opinion and case which can be conclusively proven if someone would just pony up the $1,000 for the DNA test on that tooth...we could know for certain if it matches the known Nicholas II and known Alexandra/Victoria line DNA, then there would be no contention.  But, that wouldn't be fun for JK anymore now would it??

Offline J_Kendrick

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #466 on: July 22, 2009, 04:13:12 PM »
Hello Mr. Kendrick.

You know that your opinions are always welcome here on the forum.

However, for those who have not followed this story as completely as you and the Forum Administrator have, please remember to let the new posters know that your opinions are just that.  Opinions.

The discovery of the remains of the Romanovs in Pigs Meadow and the reburial on those same remains in the Fortress of Sts Peter and Paul is the official and historical conclusion to all of the "myths and legends" of survivors.

The family and descendants of Heino Tammet have not yet given us confirmed proof of their story.  Until they do, it will remain a theory and an opinion.  There has been much "talk" over the years, but no one has yet produced proof that Heino Tammet was in any way related to the Imperial Family.

Please, do not start yet another contentious discussion about this "case".

Thank you,
Alixz

You have mis-read my post.

I am not responding here in regard to the case of any claimant.

I am only responding to the statement made here by the poster Robert Hall that claims: "It would make no difference if he (Alexei) was misdiagnosed"

It most certainly does make a very big difference if Alexei's disorder has been misdiagnosed.

Even with the discovery of a small number of bone fragments in the summer of 2007, there is *still* no scientific laboratory evidence whatsoever of an X-linked blood disease in the Russian Imperial family.

That is not a statement of opinion.  It is a statement of fact.

It is also a statement of fact -- and not a statement of opinion -- that... without any DNA evidence an X-linked blood disease at all from any of the Romanov remains... it is now very possible that every single history, medical and, biology lesson at every university on the planet... and every single textbook that is now used in those same lessons...  is still teaching a historically popular medical claim about Russia's Imperial family that may, in fact, be totally false.

For that one reason alone, the still unanswered obligation of those very same investigators who have identified the Romanov remains to actually prove the suspected presence of a suspected faulty Factor VIII gene once and for all... is now more important than ever before.

In truth, this same question of Alexei's very possible mis-diagnosis more properly belongs in a discussion thread about hemophilia... and not in a thread about claimants.

JK
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 04:25:41 PM by J_Kendrick »

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #467 on: July 22, 2009, 04:20:57 PM »
Mr Kendrick, with all due respect, you misunderstood the point of MY post- that is Aleksei died in the cellar.  No matter what his illness was, he was shot and killed there. He was not the first nor the last royal prince to have been diagnosed as a hemophiliac, he was not unique in that respect.  In any case, his illness is irrelevant to his fate- he died with his family. That is the only important issue in this discussion.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 08:57:29 AM by Alixz »
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline J_Kendrick

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #468 on: July 22, 2009, 04:56:23 PM »
Mr Kendrick, with all due respect, you misunderstood the point of MY post- that is Aleksei died in the cellar.  No matter what his illness was, she was shot and killed there. He was not the first nor the last royal prince to have been diagnosed as a hemophiliac, he was not unique in that respect.  In any case, his illness is irrelevant to his fate- he died with his family. That is the only important issue in this discussion.

In fact, it is a diathesis... and not a diagnosis... but be that as it may...

No matter how or where Alexei had died... the alleged diathesis has never been proved by any form of scientific laboratory evidence. Those very same investigators who have identified the Romanov remains are still now obliged to actually prove the long-suspected presence of faulty Factor VIII gene once and for all.

That now very necessary DNA evidence of an alleged X-linked blood disease has *still* not been found.

... and making that point clear was the only reason for my post.

JK


Offline Michael HR

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 645
  • Imperial Corps Des Pages
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #469 on: July 23, 2009, 07:08:17 AM »
I think I am with Robert on this one. It really does not matter as the poor lad still ended up butchered in a dirty cellar room along with his family and retainers and at least one innocent beloved dog. Thus bringing to an end the Imperial House as was and then the end of Imperial Russia. He was not the first and not the last to die at the hands of the communists but shows how brutal they were at that time. Thankfully all the remains have been found and they will lie together at rest.

If they ever check the DNA profile of the heir for the confirmation or otherwise of the alleged condition then so be it. But as we know the imperial lines in Europe suffered now and then form this condition and it given all the facts and on the balance of probability the same is for Alexis.

I think it is time to allow the poor boy dignity, respect and peace in death
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #470 on: July 23, 2009, 09:04:04 AM »
Since hemophilia was diagnosed within the House of Saxe Coburg Gotha and then brought into the royal houses of Hesse, Hohenzollern, and Spain, why would Alexei then be suffering from any other kind of blood disorder?

None of his "cousins" had anything but hemophilia so why should he.

And if the books are wrong, why isn't that "tooth" being tested for DNA to prove that Tammet was related to the Russian royal family?  Why is it incumbent upon the researchers who found and studied the bones to prove their case?  Why is it not Tammet's family who should do the proving?

Just think of your place in history, Mr. Kendrick, if you were the one to show the world that Alexei did not have hemophilia and that every text we now use is wrong!

Offline Pegschalet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #471 on: February 02, 2010, 06:49:18 PM »
Is there a link to this claimant?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 08:21:00 AM by Alixz »

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #472 on: February 03, 2010, 08:22:51 AM »
You are the first to ask about him on his own.

I know that he has to have been discussed here on the forum, but when I did my research to put all of the claimants together, I don't remember finding much about him.

He is mentioned many times in Guy Richards fictional tale - THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR.


Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #473 on: February 03, 2010, 08:36:49 AM »
I did a quick search in the AP search function and got Goleniewski twice.

Try that and you may get more.  Try spelling his name differently as some may not have used the correct spelling when posting.

Also, there is always Google.

Offline Pegschalet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #474 on: February 03, 2010, 02:54:20 PM »
Thank-you.  I actually wanted to start a thread on him as I'm doing research for a paper.  The spelling is the way Guy Richards spelled it in his book, "Imperial Agent, The Goleniewski-Romanov Case", by Guy Richards.  Very interesting story so far.

Basically "G" was a Polish Army Officer, Intelligence Agent, possible KGB agent.  He annoymously helped the U.S. for about 3 years before defecting to the U.S.  After a time, when his use as an "informant" was over he began to share the story that he was "Alexei".  I don't believe he was the Tsar's son but his tale leaves me with alot of questions. 

1.  Where did he get the idea to "become Alexei", were there secret KGB or Polish intelligence files that gave him the idea? 

2.  Was this a "KGB" propaganda operation?  If so why, this took place in the 60's, early 70's, Guy Richards book was written in 1966.  At this time period there was a resurgence in interest about the Romanovs.  Robert Massie's "Nicholas and Alexandra" was published in 1967.  Not sure of the date but the Ipatiev House was destroyed I believe in 1970.  Of course the Romanov remains had not been found yet and there was no DNA evidence so it was an interesting period with various conspiracy theories floating around.

3.  Goleniewski just doesn't fit the profile of the usual claimants on this site.  He was not mentally unstable although he could be moody and confrontational.

Anyways

An interesting charactor andI would love to get some input from the forum on him.

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #475 on: February 04, 2010, 08:01:11 AM »
I have never read IMPERIAL AGENT by Guy Richards, but I have read THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR and I read it when it was new and everyone actually believed that there could have been survivors.

I don't remember which thread, but there were some postings from a forum member who knew Guy Richards and had spoken with him about Goleniewski.

Again you would have to use the search function.  Try Guy Richards or, again, Goleniewski.  There might be a lot of information that was posted long ago that you could find and use for your paper.  Some of the old stuff is very interesting and worth the search effort.

Offline Pegschalet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #476 on: February 04, 2010, 10:46:20 AM »
Thank-you.  I did a search on Guy Richards but all that came up were my own posts.  I'm about 1/2 way through Imperial Agent.  I need to reread "The Rescue of the Romanovs."  It looks like Richards wrote "Imperial Agent" first and orginially he was investigating the spy.  It wasn't until later he learned that Goleniewski claimed he was "Alexei".  He became interested in the story and then wrote "The Rescue of the Romanovs".  What is interesting is that after learning
Goleniewski's story which is mostly just his( Goleniewski's) words Richards writes the next book and comes up with 250 sources for his story.  There is quite a bit of factual information which makes this so intriguing.  We now know that DNA has proved "without a shadow of a doubt" that the Romanovs all died in the Ipatiev House.  Yet there is alot of factual information floating around with no valid conclusion.

As soon as I finish Imperial Agent I will post a synopsis.  You can actually get it pretty cheap on Amazon now.  I paid around $7.


Offline stepan

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 145
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #477 on: February 04, 2010, 05:14:41 PM »
William Clarke wrote a chapter on Goleniewski in his book Lost Fortune of the Tsars. There is a lot of information there. He made some research in Poland.

There is also a book in French by Pierre de Villemarest about Goleniewski written in the 1980īs.  I havenīt read that one.

Offline Pegschalet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 92
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #478 on: February 04, 2010, 07:44:16 PM »
Thank-you.  I have the Lost Fortune of the Tsars so I will check it out.  I had forgotten that chapter.  Not familiar with the french book and my french is minimal.

Offline Dr. Botkin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #479 on: February 09, 2010, 07:12:18 PM »
Yes, one Lt. Col. Michael M. Goleniewski transmitted information to western intelligence, but there is no way of knowing if the individual presenting himself as Goleniewsi at the American embassy in Germany was the same person.  It is possible that Polish intelligence discovered Goleniewski and sent someone in his place to cast doubt on the intelligence from real Goleniewski by claiming to be the Tsarevich. The Goleniewski claiming to be the Tsarevich would never discuss how he and his entire family escaped assassination and ended up in places like Poland and the United States, including Anastasia,who supposedly ended up as a beautician in a Chicago suburb. He disowned the Anna Anderson Anastasia.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 05:58:50 AM by Alixz »