Author Topic: Yusupov Palace - Murder Site  (Read 15493 times)

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Offline nigbil

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Yusupov Palace - Murder Site
« on: February 18, 2005, 06:29:19 AM »
the Yusupov Palace courtyard where Rasputin was shot twice.
He was running for his life (and filled up with poison) and the first shot that hit him was half way across this courtyard. Rasputin was making for the gates. The second shot was close up to his head. He was dragged from this spot to be dumped into a canal - and the autopsy showed that he died from drowning?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 09:59:10 PM by Alixz »

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2005, 08:56:43 AM »
nigbil,
thanks for showing the courtyard, as I am sure many have not seen it. Your account is the "standard" one, but is now shown to likely not be accurate. There is a LONG discussion thread here showing the details.

Offline Valmont

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2005, 09:30:12 AM »
Wow...What a fool I am. I have never wonder what the courtyard may look like.  Very interesting indeed. Thank you for posting it Nigbil
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Offline felix

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2005, 07:19:41 PM »
N. I've been to the palace,only from the front. Is the courtyard  in the rear? It must be I remember the front as being solid.

Offline nigbil

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2005, 02:07:52 AM »
Yes, the courtyard is at the rear. The best view, as I can remember, of the courtyard is from the formal staircase which has large windows overlooking the rear. As you said, the front forms a large block. I post this picture (as a brief aside) of the chandelier on that formal staircase as its one of the most magnificent I've ever seen.................
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 10:00:15 PM by Alixz »

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2005, 06:37:42 AM »
Nigbil, thanks so much. Have seen some of your other photographs on another thread. Hope there are more  :)

Sunny

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2005, 08:39:03 AM »
Wonderful Nigbil!
Thank you for sharing those photos!
Out of curiosity, do you feel sympathy for Rasputin?

Offline nigbil

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2005, 06:09:18 PM »
Well, Laura, that is one hell of a question!!

The short answer is that yes, I feel sympathy for anybody killed in that manner.

If I show a great deal of interest in his antics, its because most people at the time, contemporaries of Rasputin (and  of differing classes of society), viewed his influence as malign - witness the pamphlets freely circulating as well as the graffiti.

Now his real influence may have been exaggerated and I think that people will always argue over that. But there is no doubt that he was anti-war and that he was absent at the crucial time that war decisions were made in 1914. The Great War destroyed the Russian monarchy not to mention killing millions of people. Its very, very unlikely (but faintly possible) that between Witte and Rasputin (two unlikely bedfellows you are less likely to find!) the war could have been averted. And for me, that might have given Russia a chance to develop a consitutional monarchy and consequently avoid a civil war that killed millions and the Soviet disaster that followed.

Thus Rasputin is to me both a significant nail in the coffin of the Monarchy as well a 'player' at this significant crossroad of Russian history. Add to that, on the personal level of the Tsar and his immediate family, he, Rasputin, clearly served a beneficial role. That all totals up to a fascinating individual; love him or loath him, I don't think he can be ignored.

And lastly, as a student of the French Revolution as well (I live in France) its interesting that there are so many parallels in these two Revolutions; but there was no Rasputin at the court of Louis XIV and that makes him absolutley unique.

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2005, 01:27:53 PM »
Thanks for answering. I guess overall I dislike Rasputin and what his influence did to the IF. However, I do think the way he died was barbaric, and un-ruly. Good to know your opinion  :)

Offline Phil_tomaselli

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2005, 01:58:19 PM »
Having been party to at least some of Richard Cullen's investigations into the murder it has to be said that the courtyard is probably not the site of the shooting.

Unfortunately Richard is still (last I heard) still involved in family problems & unable to finalise his conclusions.

I'm afraid I'm not prepared to go any further (on or off the board) without his permission but will try and contact him again.

Phil Tomaselli

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2005, 07:01:59 PM »
Quote
Thanks for answering. I guess overall I dislike Rasputin and what his influence did to the IF.


Rasputin, IMHO, was by far not the most unsympathetic historical figure, if you really think about it. What did he do really? He never killed anyone, he was never cruel to anyone, the stories told about him raping women and what have you have not really been proven. There is evidence that he in fact helped a lot of people, financially and otherwise. He was a bit of a drunk and a braggart and a womanizer (consentual as far as we know), but that could probably apply to 80% of the peasants during that time. He was no better or no worse than any regular Russian peasant, except he did seem to have had some sort of special ability (no matter how you look at it) and had gotten himself involved with the IF because of Alexei's hemophilia, hence put himself out into the public arena. To say he was evil would be totally wrong. He doesn't even come close to characters like Ivan the Terrible, Stalin, Hitler, etc. who were psychopaths and megalomaniacs and basically mass murderers. He did not deserve to die in the way he did and he does not really deserve his "evil" reputation, IMO....

Offline nigbil

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2005, 07:11:31 AM »
I agree with Helen's views one hundred per cent.
He certainly made his mark - you either loathed him or loved him and society at the time was split along those lines, with a proponderance of the former. Many churchman initally supported him, then turned against him. In the Imperial family there were those for him and against him. Likewise in the aristocracy.

And of course so much of the dislike was about perception; people believed he influenced the IF and were jealous. He was responsible for influencing some poor political appointments but not for all. His political influence was exaggerated.

Nor did he enrich himself hugely - yes he probably took bribes but he gave much of it away and money does not appear to have been a motive.
Nigebil

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2005, 09:47:30 AM »
Quote
I dislike Rasputin and what his influence did to the IF.


I should clarify this a bit more..
I didn't mean the influence he had on the IF. I mean the influence that he put in the minds of the Russian people against the IF. :)

I don't think he was an evil man, a womanizer yes.. but not evil  

Offline rudy3

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2005, 06:27:42 AM »
Actually, this is NOT the courtyard, where R was shot. He was shot in the courtyard (little garden) on the frontside (Mojka), to the left, if you are standing in front of the Yussupoff Palace. From the basement, where Yussupoff met with Rasputin, the stairs lead up, to one of the rooms and to one exit into the garden.

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Yusupov courtyard where R was shot
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2005, 11:40:01 AM »
The last post is right the picture is not of the Yusupov Palace Courtyard.  As one of the other posts states the yard where Rasputin was placed into a car and taken to the Malaya Nevka in on the Moika side of the Palace.  The yard is now a children's playground and covered unforunately in dog mess (unpleasant but true).  It is hard to visualise the yard as it was, the 6 foot high railings have gone, so have the two gateways, although if you look carefully you can see where they were.

If you stand in the centre of the playground and look towards the Moika the entrance to felix's basement rooms is on the left.  Along the wall of the palace from this door you would have found the side gates.  The main gates were in the centre, with a wooden hut to the right of them where the yard watchman spent some of his time.  The yard is almost directly opposite the police station on the other side of the Moika.

I don't know where the picture cam from but it looks a bit like the locatuion we had to use for the filming of the reconstruction because the playground was inappropriate and there were no close matches to the 'real' location.

As an aside I am now convinced death occurred in the basement.

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815