Author Topic: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov  (Read 42816 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2007, 03:31:39 PM »
James, the words you used are not in of themselves objectionavle, it was the contexrt you used them in. You implied that a "painted, cross dressing homosexual hero [?]' made Felix less of a person. That is what is objectionable. Btw, I have dozens of homosexual histories  and bios,  in not one of them is Felix considered a "hero". Flamboyant, hedonistic, self-absorbed, yes. A hero ? By whom?
 Charging him with the murder of his brother is spurious at best. There was plenty of money to go around between the two of them. And, Felix did not want the responsibility of maintaining the family operations.
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Offline James1941

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2007, 03:32:33 PM »
To the Forum Admin.
1. I have not made any attempt to defend Rasputin or his behavior other than that his murder was morally reprehensible. I stand by that, and I invite any others on this thread to support me in that opinion. Rasputin's actions are his and he had as much right to indulge in them as Felix did to indulge in his. I do not condone either. Besides, this is not a thread about Rasputin, but the man who conspired to murder him.
2. I wrote he fled like screaming like a teenage girl because that is what he did. He himself made mention of it in his work on the murder. The others present also testified to his actions. It is not my opinion but the historical facts. I am not the only one who should do a little research on the events.
3. In using the words sensitive, stylish and artistic, these were words used by another poster in describing why they liked Yusupov. I just remarked that because he was this doesn't excuse him from being a murder. How is that homophobic?
4. I have no homophobic agenda here at all. I am insulted that you should even think I was being homophobic. How do you know at all what I am thinking? As I have posted almost ad naseum, Yusupov's sexual orientation is not a secret. It is a historical fact. And I believe I have the right to comment on it just as much as anyone else does to call Rasputin a debauched pedophile. Does that make you a pedohobe just because you use those words?
We are discussing a historical figure and his actions and his character. He is fair game. If I start calling other posters using "homophobic rhetoric" or insulting them for their using clearly offensive words,then you can accuse me of being a homphobe. Until then my opion of Felix is just that, my opinion of him, and has no bearing on my true opinions or beliefs. You haven't the foggiest notion of what my real beliefs and even my own orientation are. You are whistling in the wind.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2007, 03:34:19 PM »
then you sir, James1941...
are gone...I personally was offended by your expression of your "opinons". so...bye bye.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 03:37:32 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2007, 09:08:10 PM »
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the news today that James has left this forum.

James has worked with integrity and professionalism with me on the first cyber Inquest (Nikolai II). He has always been the perfect gentleman and a friend over the years we have communicated privately. We have had our differences on a number of issues concerning the Imperial Family, but at the end of the day we have amicably agreed to disagree.

A forum such as this one draws together numerous personalities, and keeping that in mind, we are all here for the same reasons and that is to share our knowledge and learn what others have to offer. 

James is a valuable, intelligent member of our unique community. His departure will be our loss and I sincerely hope that the matter can be resolved effectively for the mutual benefit of all.

Margarita Nelipa
  :)


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Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2007, 02:58:31 AM »
I fully agree. I admit that I'm just a newbie, but I've learnt to appreciate James' skills. It's a sad loss. I hope this whole issue can be solved in some way.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2007, 03:03:24 AM »
I agree with FA.  Homophobic comments have no place here- or anywhere in a public forum. If James1941 could not see that, good riddance.
Felix, however, would most likely be laughing all the way to the next party!
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2007, 03:18:28 AM »
Felix, however, would most likely be laughing all the way to the next party!

Indeed! I think it would find everything pretty funny. "At least they're talking about me..." ;)

Offline ashdean

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #97 on: March 03, 2007, 06:27:30 AM »
I agree with FA.  Homophobic comments have no place here- or anywhere in a public forum. If James1941 could not see that, good riddance.
Felix, however, would most likely be laughing all the way to the next party!
I too agree with the F/A. I am sorry this situation has arisen but I have always found James to be rather a hothead, despite some very interesting opinions....

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2007, 08:33:20 AM »
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the news today that James has left this forum.

James has worked with integrity and professionalism with me on the first cyber Inquest (Nikolai II). He has always been the perfect gentleman and a friend over the years we have communicated privately. We have had our differences on a number of issues concerning the Imperial Family, but at the end of the day we have amicably agreed to disagree.

A forum such as this one draws together numerous personalities, and keeping that in mind, we are all here for the same reasons and that is to share our knowledge and learn what others have to offer. 

James is a valuable, intelligent member of our unique community. His departure will be our loss and I sincerely hope that the matter can be resolved effectively for the mutual benefit of all.

Margarita Nelipa
  :)

The genuine shame is that James could not post with the same integrity and professionalism, nor act as a perfect gentleman here in our Forum as you say he has done in private with you.

I don't care a whit about his beliefs and I did not ban him for them, rather, his obnoxious, offensive and frankly inaccurate rhetoric.  You can say what you like, but the WAY you say it is just as important.  James clear homophobic agenda was the issue.  He can not hide behind his "well he was" statements.  He was offensive, rude and unapologetic.  Bob read this thread and fully supports my decision as he himself was mortified and offended at what James wrote.  If James had just apologised, it may have been different, but then, James NEVER apologised for anything, rather continued his bullying and browbeating to further his agendae.  I have never seen him discuss anything, rather he only lectures and pontificates and demeans and offends those who disagree with him.

Discussion is encouraged, inflammatory rhetoric and deliberate offensive behavior are not.

FA

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2007, 10:06:33 AM »
Hello Everyone,

With all the problems here on this thread and the final solution, my post #50 seems to have gotten lost and/or forgotten in the quagmire.

Forum Administrator:
I don't know how to bring it forward to continue the dialogue on: "Do we like Felix?" and get the thread back on track.  Can you help out here?  Thank you!

All:
My thoughts on sexual orientation for many years have been:  unless you are actually in bed with the person and performing your mutual stimuli with each other, then you don't know what their preference is.  And, unless the person actually comes out and says they're 'whatever', then who cares;  if it's not hurting you or any children, what's the problem.

Larry

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2007, 10:14:40 AM »
Vecchiolarry-  Your thoughts on Rasputin are all addressed  on the threads that deal with Rasputin. I think the focus on this thread is actually Felix and whether or not any of us has an affinity to him.
 
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline ashdean

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2007, 11:00:31 AM »
I am shocked and deeply saddened by the news today that James has left this forum.

James has worked with integrity and professionalism with me on the first cyber Inquest (Nikolai II). He has always been the perfect gentleman and a friend over the years we have communicated privately. We have had our differences on a number of issues concerning the Imperial Family, but at the end of the day we have amicably agreed to disagree.

A forum such as this one draws together numerous personalities, and keeping that in mind, we are all here for the same reasons and that is to share our knowledge and learn what others have to offer. 

James is a valuable, intelligent member of our unique community. His departure will be our loss and I sincerely hope that the matter can be resolved effectively for the mutual benefit of all.

Margarita Nelipa
  :)

The genuine shame is that James could not post with the same integrity and professionalism, nor act as a perfect gentleman here in our Forum as you say he has done in private with you.

I don't care a whit about his beliefs and I did not ban him for them, rather, his obnoxious, offensive and frankly inaccurate rhetoric.  You can say what you like, but the WAY you say it is just as important.  James clear homophobic agenda was the issue.  He can not hide behind his "well he was" statements.  He was offensive, rude and unapologetic.  Bob read this thread and fully supports my decision as he himself was mortified and offended at what James wrote.  If James had just apologised, it may have been different, but then, James NEVER apologised for anything, rather continued his bullying and browbeating to further his agendae.  I have never seen him discuss anything, rather he only lectures and pontificates and demeans and offends those who disagree with him.

Discussion is encouraged, inflammatory rhetoric and deliberate offensive behavior are not.

FA

Thankyou FA for your AS USUAL wise,balanced & unbiased input.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2007, 01:17:58 AM »
Belochka,

... But people at the time thought differently. Besides, where was Felix supposed to imprison Rasputin (or Alexandra for that matter)? In his basement? Thousands of people died worse deaths than that of Rasputin as a result of Alexandra's stupid actions or inactions.  ... Rasputin himself was a result of Alexandra's actions. Without her he would have been nobody. All that said, I find what happened to Alexandra at the end extremely unjust and tragic. I don't beleive in revenge and punishment. As long as the person is not in a position to do harm, that's more than enough for me. I am not happy that Rasputin was killed either. But in his case I find the alternative less attractive. It made no difference at the end, because he was killed too late. And my last point: Alexandra is more responsible for Rasputin's death than any of the actual murderers. If she had got rid of Rasputin in the first place by sending him back to his village and keepin an eye on him so he wouldn't misbehave, he wouldn't have been killed.

Johnny,

Sadly you have been caught up in the mesh like so many others who lived in Petrograd at the time, believing that Alexandra was responsible for the way the Russian Empire was heading. Radzinski, for which I must give due credit was one of the first to popularily reveal that there were many falsehoods and lies that were deliberately attributed against Rasputin. The emergence of memoirs penned by real individuals who actually met and conversed with Rasputin (very few fall into this category) and including the plethora of documentary evidence emerging from Russia, I have changed my outlook completely. I once also believed those tiresome myths because there was little else to contradict the prevailing stories written even today.

Alexandra was indeed the key to Rasputin's arrangements in Petrograd, but it is misguided to propose that she contributed to Rasputin's assassination. That notion is historically and in reality unacceptable. Few today want to consider the innocence of their association. Fewer want to believe that it was never based on political overtones. A significant number of those who circulated within the Court as visitors made it political and that is was all part of the problematic scenario that others had deliberately created in an attempt to achieve their own selfish political goals.

Felix was very misguided in believing he knew what was best for the sovereign whom he allegedly served with loyalty. Felix breached that loyalty!

The main consideration is that it was not for Felix to make the decision to eradicate Rasputin or any human being that he prefered to dispose of because of some ill conceived notions that circulated the city salons and the Duma. I do not believe that we can excuse the era as the prime reason to justify his actions. It is not a life style choice to act out on a whim one day and then go about your daily duties on the following day as if it was a justifiable and worthwhile evening performance before one's select friends. Murder was considered murder in Petrograd. We today should be able to identify that it was an abhorrent and despicable act. Equally we can not as educated individuals believe that we can be selective and claim that one murder in Petrograd was more preferable over another. Such a notion is inconscionable in our modern law abiding societies.

Felix knew he would be relatively safe because of the shroud of his nobility. Placing this into clearer perspective, any other indivdual without the protection of titles would have had to answer for his crime before a court of law and endure harsh imprisonment.   

Felix had blood on his hands and his conscience never permitted him to take full responsibility for what he had actually done. Bragging is one thing but his less than virtuous attitude against a man who trusted him implicitly - was assassinated by virtue of that alleged bond. Such a man as Felix can not either morally or ethically be afforded the luxury of positive considerations after the fact.

Felix enabled and contributed directly to Rasputin's cold blooded assassination. In my book one can only shudder at the idea of how callous and vindictive Felix proved himself to be. Any admirable qualities that he may have had in the past had diminished to nothing on the day he deliberately chose to mutilate and to kill an innocent and trusting human being who hurt no one. In the absence of any genuine remorse any favorable considerations towards his later deeds are morally unsustainable.

Margarita Nelipa
   :)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2007, 01:20:22 AM by Belochka »


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Offline Johnny

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2007, 06:56:14 PM »
Belochka,

You could be reading my death sentence to me, and I would still be standing there listening to you with my mouth open in awe and admiration. You write so beautifully and in such an impeccanle English that it takes my breath away. After reading your posts I feel so well and elevated that agreeing or disagreeing with your points becomes all of a sudden almost  irrelevant. It's like saying "I disagree with "Anna Karenina" or agree with "Romeo and Juliet". :)
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Your personal opinion on Felix Yusupov
« Reply #104 on: March 05, 2007, 12:08:09 AM »
Belochka,

You could be reading my death sentence to me, and I would still be standing there listening to you with my mouth open in awe and admiration. You write so beautifully and in such an impeccanle English that it takes my breath away. After reading your posts I feel so well and elevated that agreeing or disagreeing with your points becomes all of a sudden almost  irrelevant. It's like saying "I disagree with "Anna Karenina" or agree with "Romeo and Juliet". :)

Thank you Johnny for the generosity of your words.

Best regards,

Margarita
  :)


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