Author Topic: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family  (Read 96349 times)

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Offline palimpsest

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2005, 08:31:42 PM »
When I said "survival" I was thinking about your opinion on Carol II:

Yep, Carol II was user, they all were. It is called survival.  In my opinion, they great fault of the Balkan [Bulgaria & Romania] monarchies was that they did not adapt to the politics of their adopted countries. They essentially remained German in outlook and upbringing. They were placed on these thrones by non-native influences,

Wasn't Carol II also thinking more of his welfare than his life?

[I think that in the case of Romania the H. dynasty was a success even if it was imported.]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palimpsest »
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2005, 08:47:34 PM »
Ok, but Carol has is own thread. I will say that I dissagree about any of the imported dynasties being a success though.  As an alternative to the brutal Turkish rule they were definitely welcome but I think they should be looked at as strictly transitory, until the people could come up with their own native solutions to rule. Without the wars and the Soviet influence for so many years, perhaps that could have been achieved much more calmy. I believe they [the monarchies] would still have been abolished eventually and peacefully [?].
Carol II was no exemplar of good rule, judgement or self-sacrifice. He was definitely a "survivor" and ended up having the "last laugh" in many ways. I think he was trying to "survive" since a child.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline palimpsest

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #62 on: July 19, 2005, 08:56:24 PM »
For me Bulgaria, Romania without soviet tanks would have been like the "small" European monarchies Belgium, Denmark, etc. and there would have been no internal struggle against them.
Sure there is the case of Greece but you mustn't forget that in Greece socialism and communism were -and still are- popular [because of the fascist invasion and the military dictatorship].
Maybe only Serbia would have done as Greece.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palimpsest »
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2005, 09:30:46 PM »
I cannot say much about the situation in Romania as the only books I have read are definitely one-sided, i.e. pro monarchy.
However, I am familiar with several versions of Bulgarian history. Socialism and communism were [and still are] long established political forces. Long before the wars and the Soviets. I do not think the "royal" families had quite the hold on the native population that the  monarchies you cite. Those have  a common heritage going back hundreds of years. If not the family itself, at least the institution. And even in some of those cases, continuation is not necessarily a certaintity.
I understand and respect what you say, and am just trying to give you an alternate outlook.
Cheers,
Robert
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline palimpsest

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2005, 10:18:11 PM »
I need such outlook, thank you!


In Romania before 1945 the socialist party was very small and the communists were something like 300 in the records of the police at that time. [maybe because the industry wasn't developed enough]
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2005, 10:26:57 PM »
You should consider that "police records" always downplay numbers to their own advantage.  They would not want to show their ineffectiveness, nor any serious opposition to the regime that keeps them in business. The "keeping the threat under control" position.
In Bulgaria, Boris  had no real idea that the "revolutionary" element was so powerful and effective until someone almost blew him up !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline palimpsest

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2005, 10:41:40 PM »
[in my opinion] This could have never happened in Romania. The left people were "really" not that important. You can see this in the fact that Romanian gulag system was much larger than in other eastern conquered countries, the whole society was seen as an enemy not just the [political-military-economic] leaders. I think Romanians saw too much of a threat in the Soviets [and also in Tsarist Russia before that –see the Moldavia problem]. On the other hand, unfortunately, the extreme right was popular. :-/
No left movement, sorry!

[sorry for the digression; now back to Simeon]
So what do you think will happen with Simeon's political adventure now?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palimpsest »
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Offline dvoretzky

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2005, 06:06:17 AM »
Simeon has just declared that his party will not take part in the coalition between the Socialists and the ethnic Turkish MRF party.

Offline Iskenderbey

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2005, 04:12:46 PM »
Quote
Sure there is the case of Greece but you mustn't forget that in Greece socialism and communism were -and still are- popular [because of the fascist invasion and the military dictatorship].
Maybe only Serbia would have done as Greece.



Incorrect.  Communism was never is not, a popular force within Greece.  The Civil War was similar to other east european conflicts after WWII, a minority taking by force of arms power over a majority.
The fact that it never has received more than 10% of the vote in elections can attest to that.

Socialism, as distinct with communism, has been a strong force within Greece, but only more so after the military dictatorship, which discredited the right.  Most of the votes that the Socialists received were from centrists who moved to the Socialist party after the fall of the junta, as the pre-Junta centrist party disintegrated after the fall of the Junta, and these centrists saw the socialists as more in line with their own positions.
Even today, most voters are and remain very centrist in political thinking.

Regards

Offline palimpsest

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2005, 11:42:22 AM »
Iskenderbey
I have only a very unclear birds-eye-view of Greek politics in the XX century. Thank you for this explanation!
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2005, 11:38:40 PM »
Looks like not only Simeon, but his party as well has been jettisoned from the coaloition.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline dvoretzky

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2005, 08:20:23 AM »
Simeon got a new lease of life today as the Socialists failed to win Parliament's approval of their draft cabinet and decided to return their mandate to President Purvanov. Now Simeon will get his mandate tomorrow and will try to form a new coalition with the right-wing parties.

Offline palimpsest

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2005, 09:40:20 AM »
I hope he will be able to form a stable cabinet. Is that likely?
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Offline dvoretzky

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2005, 10:58:30 AM »
He said today he wouldn't run for PM although his party is getting the mandate. There will be a new round of horse trading until next weekend.

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: King Simeon II of Bulgaria and his family
« Reply #74 on: July 30, 2005, 11:05:49 AM »
King Simeon has always been quite approachable with me.  I had a standing invitation to visit him in sofia, but I never followed through with it.

In Vienna in 2002 for the celebrations of Archduke Otto's 90th birthday King Simen introduced me to some people saying that I was THE Saxe-Coburg & Gotha dynasty's historian, which filled me with great honor.  Well after all I have researched the history of this family for almost two decades now.

Anyhow, during that weekend in Vienna I told the King that with all due respect my opinion was that he had made a huge mistake by becoming embroiled in Bulgarian politics.  My feeling about it has always been that he should have remained above politics and develop for himself a role similar to that so artfully played by Crown Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia in Belgrade.  King Simeon's reply was that he felt he needed to help any which way he could and given the opportunity to steer the country to a better future he could not back out.

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