Author Topic: PLACES CONNECTED WITH RASPUTIN  (Read 36020 times)

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Offline nigbil

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PLACES CONNECTED WITH RASPUTIN
« on: February 23, 2005, 04:54:24 AM »
Hi all,
I'm wondering what the general view is of this Rasputin prediction. The source is Massie and it concerns Rasputin's village of birth.

"His birthplace was Pokrovskoe, a village on the Tura River in western Siberia, 250 miles east of the Ural mountains"

"Near midnight on August 17th (1917), the train crawled slowly into Tyumen on the Tura River. At the dock across from the station, the river steamer Rus was waiting......Nicholas spent the voyage pacing the steamer's upper deck and staring at the villages scattered along the bare shores. One of these villages was Pokrovskoe, Rasputin's home. As P glided past, the family gathered on deck to look. They saw a prosperous village with flowers in the windowboxes and cows and pigs in the barnyards. Rasputin's house was unmistakable: two storeys tall, it loomed above the simple peasant huts. The passengers were fascinated to see this remote but famous hamlet. Long before, Rasputin had predicted to the Empress that one day she would visit his village. He had not foretold the circumstances, and the family accepted this glimpse as a fulfilment of the prophecy."

"Further south, reaching the Tobol River, they found the ice beginning to crack. For safety sake, the entire party dismounted and crossed the river on foot. They changed horses frequently. The last of these remount stations was Pokrovskoe, and the change was carried out directly beneath the windows of Rasputin's house.
There sat the Tsar and the Empress, prisoners in a caravan of peasant carts, while in the windows above them the family of the man who had done so much to destroy them stood looking down, waving white handkerchiefs. Before the procession moved on, Rasputin's widow, Praskovie, looked directly at Alexandra and carefully made the sign of the cross."

I wonder what were the odds of the Tsar of All the Russias visiting a village, any village, one of tens of thousands?
Nigbil

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2005, 09:45:13 AM »
Nigbil,
While I for one hate to challenge Bob Massie, Volkov, who was on that trip himself has a different story:

"At Tiumen, we transferred over on board the ship "Russ". The trip down the river went very well. While we passed the town of Pokrovskoe, Rasputin's birthplace, the Empress pointed out the town to me saying "Here is where Grigori Efimovich lived. He used to fish in this river and would bring us the fish in Tsarskoe Selo." The Empress had tears in her eyes.

The ship arrived in Tobolsk on August 6/19, after five o'clock in the afternoon."

I think Mr. Massie may have been using second or third hand sources for that particular information.

Offline nigbil

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2005, 09:54:19 AM »
FA,
Massie is clearly describing two 'visits' here. The first, as per Volkov, is the one where they just sailed past the town/village - not really a visit at all.
The second, and the more interesting to me, is them, the IF, actually in the village outside R's house.

nigbil

Offline Olga

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2005, 04:07:26 AM »
I thought Grigori Yefimovich's wife was Marfa.  ???

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2005, 09:58:40 AM »
nigbil.
There was NO second visit. Volkov is describing the trip in August 1917 to Tobolsk.  They simply never got off the Rus until they reached Tobolsk.  I have no idea where Massie got the information that they disembarked.  AND, why in the world would there be dangerous ICE in the river in August??

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 10:12:39 AM »
I also remember that the whole family looked on Pokrovskoe as they were passing by it on the river in the boat on the way to Tobolsk. But didn't Nicholas and Alexandra and Maria pass through Pokrovskoe again when they were being taken to Yekaterinburg from Tobolsk? I remember reading that they had to change the horses there, or something like that, and that it was done right near Rasputin's house, and that Rasputin's family members looked out the window at them and crossed themselves. I don't remember where I read this, but I just remember that I did. Maybe this is what is meant by the "second" visit.. Nigbil, is this what you are talking about?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 09:46:39 PM by Alixz »

Offline nigbil

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2005, 01:38:05 PM »
Helen, that is exactly what I meant. The first time they saw Pokrovskoe was on the Rus and Volkov's description largely matches Massie's. That was en route to Tobolsk and most of that journey was by boat.
That is para 2 of my quote from Massie.

The 2nd time, the third and final paragraph, was when they were moved from Tobolsk en route for Ekaterinberg ( I think). This is the time they were moved in 'peasant carts' and its the only time that they actually stopped in the village. Clearly this was the depth of winter. This is to what Helen Azar is refering. I cannot give you the date because Massie does not mention one.

I'd don't know if I am explaining it badly but FA does not seem to be able to understand what I am saying :-(

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 01:45:00 PM »
I think that they were moved to Yekaterinburg some time in March, which could still mean snow and very cold in Siberia. This was also when they had to use a couple of warm winter coats because they were travelling in a tarantas which is kind of open. I remember reading that Dr Botkin gave either the emperor or the empress his fur coat because they didn't have an approapriate one for this trip.
In any case, this second trip through Pokrovskoe was definitely in winter-like conditions.... I think I read it in Massie's book too.

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 01:45:45 PM »
When Nicholas, Alexandra and Maria went from Tobolsk to Ekaterinburg, they went the entire way on board a train, there is no mention of going thru Pokrovskoe in a cart, or being on the Rus again, in any of the source material I can find.  There IS a good deal about Yurovsky's train trip with them.  This was in early April, and Yurovsky did chide Nicholas about not taking an overcoat with him when they left.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2005, 01:46:58 PM »
Quote
There IS a good deal about Yurovsky's train trip with them.


Do you mean Yakovlev's?

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2005, 01:47:30 PM »
Sorry, YES, my bad. Thanks Helen.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2005, 01:55:58 PM »
I can't remember exactly what book I read this in, I think it was in N & A, but I clearly remember that it said something about Rasputin's prophecy coming true about N & A's visit to Rasputin's house or his village, and that they changed the carriage or the horses right in front of his house. And that Rasputin's wife was at the window watching them and blessed them by making the sign of the cross. I don't know if this really happened or not, but it definitely was written somewhere, most likely by Massie. For some reason I can't find my N & A to look it up... But it sounds like Nigbil remembers this same passage from there.

P.S. They took the tarantas initially and then the train in the end of the journey.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 09:48:14 PM by Alixz »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2005, 04:40:04 PM »
Ok, I found this here on the AP site, an excerpt from Felix Yussupov's "Lost Splendor":

The journey was extremely tiring and arduous. It was made in a tarantass (a wicker cart without seats, used by peasants in the Ural district), over terrible roads with deep ruts. They changed horses in Pokrovskoe, under the windows of Rasputin's house. The next stop, an unexpected one, was in Ekaterinburg.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/lostsplendor/xxvii.html

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2005, 04:47:43 PM »
Quote
I thought Grigori Yefimovich's wife was Marfa.  ???


Olga Rodionovna, Grigori' Yefimovich's wife's name was Praskovia Feodorovna.

Offline Ortino

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Re: Pokrovskoe
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2005, 05:25:03 PM »
Quote
I can't remember exactly what book I read this in, I think it was in N & A, but I clearly remember that it said something about Rasputin's prophecy coming true about N & A's visit to Rasputin's houseor his village, and that they changed the carriage or the horses right in front of his house. And that Rasputin's wife was at the window watching them and blessed them by making the sign of the cross. I don't know if this really happened or not, but it definitely was written somewhere, most likely by Massie. For some reason I can't find my N & A to look it up... But it sounds like Nigbil remembers this same passage from there.  


Yes it does say that in there. You have a good memory.  ;)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »