Author Topic: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery  (Read 51980 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2005, 09:04:46 AM »
No one has confirmed that the grave was empty.  The Soviets were the last to do that, open it, and  did not make any comment on it.
I was told recently that when enough funds are gathered, the grave will be opend and studied properly. When is anyone's guess.
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Offline hikaru

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2005, 02:23:15 PM »
It is said  by the eyewintesses that it was empty when after the revolution all of coffins were opened in order to find valuable things.
Of course such deal was not documentally confirmed.
There are not so much documents dated 1917 and 1918th years.They had no time and no wish to leave documents.

There is also the version that Alexandr II secretely ordered to put the body into the coffin.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2005, 04:51:35 AM »
Quote
It is said  by the eyewintesses that it was empty when after the revolution all of coffins were opened in order to find valuable things.
Of course such deal was not documentally confirmed.


Actually such things were indeed documented.

According to Dziewanowski's book Alexander I Russia's mysterious Tsar the author noted that Dzerzhinsky and Stalin discussed the opening of the crypts, specifically to remove any jewelry to sell for much needed hard currency in March 1924.

With Stalin's encouragement Dzerzhinsky returned two weeks later to report that all the Romanov graves were searched. The women had the more valuable items than did the males. The males provided rings and military decorations suitable for museums only.

"As to the grave of Alexander I, it was most disappointing. His casket was empty."

Should the word "empty" be interpreted as empty of jewelry or was the casket vacant?  ;)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2005, 10:00:59 AM »
That would certainly be my take on it. But like all things Romanov, the mystery will remain unsolved for some, even if a corpse is eventually found, dna-ed and reburried with full pomp and ceremony.
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2005, 08:07:29 AM »
Bluetoria, I found a couple of contemporary images about this subject you may be interested to see, in a Russian book I own.

Depiction of the death of Alexander I, and the house where Alexander died:


Fedor Kuzmich, and "izba" (peasant house) where Fedor Kuzmich lived:





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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2005, 08:23:01 AM »
Thank you, Helen  :)
More & more, reading these posts & looking at the pictures, I am convinced that the story of him going to live as a hermit is true - whether or not he was actually Fedor Kuzmich.  

Offline hikaru

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2005, 08:39:38 AM »
GD Nikolay Mikhaylovich was trying to resolve this mistery and he thought that the Fyoudor Kuzymich was not the Alexandr because :
1. The signature and writing way of Fyodor Kuzymich was different from Alexandr's ones.
2. Alexandr could no live in poor and severe conditions .
It was opposite to his nature. He was not patient.
3. He could no do it alone or only with his wife.
Somebody else should be involved.
But somebody else was not found.

GD wrote very interesting book "Emperor Alexandr" about the destiny of Alexandr and about his death.

Anyway, the mystery of Alexandr death is still the mistery



Offline Belochka

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2005, 08:42:10 PM »
I believe that this mystery will be laid to rest one day.

Funding will become available to open the crypt designated to Alexander I, and then scientifically assessed to determine the authenticity of any remains.


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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2005, 03:19:09 PM »
Quote
GD wrote very interesting book "Emperor Alexandr" about the destiny of Alexandr and about his death.


Hikaru, do you know where I can buy this book?

Offline hikaru

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2005, 10:18:47 AM »
I have the book  printed in Moscow in 1999.
In this book there is only the part written by Nikolay Mikhaylovich.
There are no letters and documents which was in the  pre-revolution period book of Nikolay Mikhaylovich .
Maybe you could find it in the old book store.


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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2005, 12:13:38 AM »
I think the best researched source of info on this topic is a book called "Imperial Legend:  The Disappearance of Czar Alexander I", by Alexis Troubetzkoy.  Although we won't know for sure until DNA testing is done (if ever), there is ample evidence that the Czar planned his own disappearance and that his brother Nicholas knew and helped to keep his cover.

Offline kenmore3233

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2005, 11:32:33 PM »
Quote
There is a fascinating legend that Alexander I faked his own death and "retired" from life under another name.
At one point a man named Fedor Kuzmich appeared in Tomsk and local residents suspected that this might well be Tsar Alexander himself. In 1864 Kuzmich was lying on his death bed, his last words being, "God only knows my real name!"
Allegendly, in 1865, Tsar Nicholas attempted to quell the rumors about his brother and had his casket opened. Rumors soon spread about the casket being empty. Then in 1926, over one hundred years after Alexander's death his casket was opened again and was officially declared empty. To this day, supposedly no one really knows where he lays buried.



I would forget about the Soviet government's announcement in 1926. It was almost certainly disinformation, one of many such lies intended to discredit Russia's former rulers by making them seem like fools, tyrants, or bizarre individuals of one sort or another.

The Soviet's 1926 statement about Alexander's coffin has never been backed up by any kind of evidence.

I don't think that professional historians anywhere give any credence to the empty coffin story. It was communist proganda, plain and simple.

As for the Kuzmich story, it is true that such a peasant lived in Siberia in the mid-1800s. He was remarkable for knowing things about the Russian imperial court that a simple peasant wouldn't be expected to know. Still, knowledgable people who interviewed Kuzmich came away convinced that he was an ignorant peasant and nothing more.

The documentation and eyewitness accounts surrounding Alexander's death in Taganrog in 1825 are very credible. You can rest assured that Alexander died there, just as historians say.

Alexander died of an illness that was either malaria or something akin malaria. The disease was rampant in the Taganrog area at the time.

Offline kenmore3233

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2005, 11:33:19 PM »
Quote
I think the best researched source of info on this topic is a book called "Imperial Legend:  The Disappearance of Czar Alexander I", by Alexis Troubetzkoy.  Although we won't know for sure until DNA testing is done (if ever), there is ample evidence that the Czar planned his own disappearance and that his brother Nicholas knew and helped to keep his cover.



Sorry, but there is no such evidence. It is just rumor, and nothing more.

Offline Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2005, 01:42:09 PM »
I'm not sure that your right about that.  The tombs were opened in the 20's by the Soviet's searching for jewels to sell.  A couple of respectable author's have now said that his Tomb was empty - I guess we won't know for sure until it is opened again - but what proof do you have that these author's are wrong?

dca

Offline kenmore3233

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Re: Emperor Alexander I vs Fedor Kuzmitch - a mystery
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2005, 10:47:17 PM »
Quote
I'm not sure that your right about that.  The tombs were opened in the 20's by the Soviet's searching for jewels to sell.  A couple of respectable author's have now said that his Tomb was empty - I guess we won't know for sure until it is opened again - but what proof do you have that these author's are wrong?

dca


Who are the "respectable authors" who say that the tomb was empty? As far as I know, no competent professional historians believe the empty tomb story.

You have to take into consideration the credibility of the authors of the story: the Bolsheviks of the 1920s.

It is well known that the Bolsheviks lied about many, many things in order to mislead the Russian public. The Bolsheviks at the time were trying to discredit the tsars: hence the bizarre story about the empty tomb.

As for Bolsheviks looking for jewels to sell...I have never heard that any other Romanov tombs were opened or ransacked.

Alexander's death at Taganrog in 1825 is very well documented. There were many witnesses to his death, including well known and respected men of government, and medical authorities.

All of these very credible people could not possibly have conspired to fake Alexander's death.

There is no credibility to the Bolshevik empty tomb story. Period.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by kenmore3233 »