Author Topic: AA and the Russian Language  (Read 79338 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2005, 07:23:06 PM »
Quote

Nikolai BTW spoke perfect Russian ... his voice can be heard on a couple of recordings. I have one brief extract on CD.
  


I would love to hear N's recorded voice, where did you find it? Is there any way you can upload it somewhere so that we could have access to hear it? I am sure many others would be very excited about it too!  :)

Offline Belochka

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2005, 07:40:44 PM »
The CD and accompanying two video tapes of the I.F. was purchased from a man in Krasnoyarsk, Russia two years ago. ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2005, 07:46:00 PM »
P.K. did not "say" that.  It was part of the affadavits of Erna Bucholz who was a nurse at Dalldorf.  The fact that AA, spoke other languages in her sleep does not cloud the issue.   It goes towards showing that this woman, whoever she was, had the ability to speak & understand Russian, and speak in other languages.  Which along with the affadavits posted by Penny Wilson of Pierre Gillard & Olga A., show that A.A. did speak &
understand Russian.

It too would be intersting to hear the voices of the Tsar.

Offline Belochka

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2005, 08:01:33 PM »
Hi Michael G.

One can speak Russian and know what to reply. But that does not imply that the speaker was Imperial?

To state that a person spoke a number of languages without specifying which were used has little meaning.

Fluency of a language can be interpreted in different ways, depending on who might be your audience.

All the best,

Belochka  ;)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2005, 08:12:15 PM »
Of course Belochka I agree completely. I don't think she was Imperial, as I accept the DNA evidence, but I'm not quite convinced she was Franziska S.  

I am sure there is conversational Russian as well as formal, as with any language.  

During her interview with Olga she could understand the Russian, as she replied to her in German, and Olga does admit as does the Nurses that the patient understood and spoke in Russian.  

The fact that she could speak other languages in her sleep, I wish that would have been elaborated on further as to what languages she was speaking while asleep.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2005, 08:35:44 PM »
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The fact that she could speak other languages in her sleep, I wish that would have been elaborated on further as to what languages she was speaking while asleep.


I'd be interested to hear more about this too, what languages did she speak? It sounds a little ambiguous to just say "she spoke languages in her sleep".. Sometimes people speak all kinds of nonsense in their sleep, it may sound like another language to someone who doesn't know whether it's really a language or just nonsense. Speaking something other than clear German or English or whatever your native language may be in your sleep doesn't mean you know other languages.

Or perhaps she was "speaking in tongues"?  :o  ;)

Offline Belochka

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2005, 08:50:34 PM »
When a person is trying so desperately to convince the world that she is Russian, let alone Imperial, then what would be the first thing which would give her game away?

Surely it would be her utilization of the Russian language? A few random words (such as to the birds in the park incident), or perhaps simple replies using short sentences might get her by, but a lengthy conversation would not.

All the purported excuses as to why "she" refused to do so carried much weight in the art of deception.

As a medical scientist, the DNA confirmation cemented my beliefs on this matter.

The AA case is finally closed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2005, 09:03:06 PM »
For you it is closed, for others it is not.

She spoke more than a few sentences of Russian, as stated by Nurse Bucholz and others.  It was no few words to the birds in the park, it was complete, gramatically correct sentences.

As a researcher of history I find the difference in the AA & FS one of the more fascinating mysteries of the IF.  The DNA issue only settles one side of it, that AA was not AN.  There is another side, the many differences between AA & FS.  If it turns out to be that she is FS, oh well, I have lost nothing, until then I will stick to my opinion, and you can have yours.

Offline Belochka

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2005, 09:30:44 PM »
Some historians maybe interested in persuing the question as to who AA really might have been. That is fine. :)

Many Russians, including myself have closed the door on this matter.

I wish you well in your search. It may make for an interesting publication.

All the best,

Belochka  ;)


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Offline AGRBear

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2005, 10:30:59 AM »
I believe Penny has told us a number of times that FS did not speak Russian.  Therefore, it may be safe to say that Russian was not taught in the schools the FS family attented.

Learning a new language, such as Russian, I would think would come up in a conversation with the family, but, then, it may not have.  

The court trial apparently shows proof that AA did understand Russian and to certain people she replied in Russian.    Penny indicated there was more evidence that AA knew Russian.  So, I'm not sure why people keep trying to tell us that she didn't.

Thanks Belochka for your answer on the Russian tutors.
Quote

...[in part]....

Nikolai BTW spoke perfect Russian ... his voice can be heard on a couple of recordings. I have one brief extract on CD.

The G.D.'s and Alexei would have had to have formal lessons in the correct use of Russian grammar, which is certainly evident in their notes and letters to their parents (although G.D. Marie had re-corrected errors):

There is also a lovely extract from Alexei's Russian language notebook (c.1912-14)

Their Russian language and literature teacher was Piotr Petrov ... a Russian.

Olga and Tatyana had a Russian governess until 1912, Sophia Ivanovna Tutcheva whose uncle was the famous Russian poet Fyodor Tutchev.

See: Nicholas II The Imperial Family (2004) Abris publications for examples of their writing and grammar.
....  


So what do we know about Piotr Petrov and Olga and Tatiana's Russian governess?

And, who taught Anastasia and Alexei Russian before March of 1917?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Lanie

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2005, 01:24:15 PM »
Pyotr Petrov was the children's Russian tutor.  He died in 1918.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2005, 02:40:59 PM »
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Pyotr Petrov was the children's Russian tutor.  He died in 1918.


Lanie, did he die of natural causes or was he killed too?

There is actually a sketch of Petrov  done by one of the grand duchesses, I can't remember where I saw it... I think it may have been in "Anastasia's Album" book.

Offline CatherineNY

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2005, 07:02:59 PM »
On the question of whether or not a Polish person would understand Russian,  I can contribute some anecdotal evidence. My mother grew up speaking Polish at home, and studied Russian very briefly as an adult through an educational television program, but never took any formal classes in Russian. One time, she attended a business dinner with my father and some Russian guests of his company, and told me later that she was able to understand a good deal of what they said to one another in Russian. So if FS, who grew up speaking Polish, set her mind to learning enough Russian to understand conversations, and to interject the occasional comment in Russian, she had a head start as a native speaker of another Slavic language.

Just anecdotal evidence, as I said. Personally, Anna Anderson's poor English is one of the things that convinced me that she was not Anastasia, but I also don't find the evidence that she spoke fluent Russian very convincing.


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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2005, 08:08:39 PM »
Yes for those whose minds are closed to other possibilities the case is definitely shut. (Sorry this was meant to say shut, I apologize) :-X :-X

We aren't discussing whether or not she is Anastasia, that has been decided by the DNA evidence. We are discussing whether AA is FS.  


We have shown that individual sources who had no interest in this case stated she spoke fluently and understood Russian.

We have Olga's sworn affadavit that she spoke to AA
in Russian, that AA understood her and replied to her in German, so she had that capablility also, while we also have Volkov, Olga, Gillard contradicting their sworn statements by their testimony admitting that the claimant could speak Russian.   What other proof is needed? ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Mgmstl »

Offline Malenkaya

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Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2005, 08:09:53 PM »
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On the question of whether or not a Polish person would understand Russian,  I can contribute some anecdotal evidence. My mother grew up speaking Polish at home, and studied Russian very briefly as an adult through an educational television program, but never took any formal classes in Russian. One time, she attended a business dinner with my father and some Russian guests of his company, and told me later that she was able to understand a good deal of what they said to one another in Russian. So if FS, who grew up speaking Polish, set her mind to learning enough Russian to understand conversations, and to interject the occasional comment in Russian, she had a head start as a native speaker of another Slavic language.


I had wondered for a while if that was the case with AA.  It's nice to have an actual story show that could have been what it was.

Anastasia
*Anastasia*