Author Topic: AA and the Russian Language  (Read 80830 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChristineM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2882
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #195 on: June 03, 2007, 05:49:33 PM »
Bob - why on earth would Anna Anderson, or whoever she was, suddenly begin to speak in Polish at a lecture at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts?     Obviously she could not have realised there were native Polish speakers in the company, otherwise she would not have run the risk of unmasking herself.    But in an English speaking country and in the company of her English speaking husband, why would she speak 'loudly' in Polish? 

I simply cannot understand why a practised pretender would make such a slip up.   It just does not make sense. 

Anna Anderson (?) did understand the Russian language - and complex sentences at that.  That is an established fact.   Equally, it is true, she did not speak Russian.

When exploring the myth of AN/AA, it is necessary to admit that there have been some extraordinary coincidences.   Glossing over or refuting these coincidences, can only promote and perpetuate the myth.

tsaria         

   
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 05:57:00 PM by tsaria »

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #196 on: June 03, 2007, 06:28:34 PM »
... I have posted this before but when Olga entered the chapel of the hospital with FS/Anna she crossed herself instinctively like the Catholic FS/Anna was.  No Orthodox person would have done this Olga said. 
Bob

Crossing oneself when entering any Orthodox Church with the right hand "right to left" becomes an instictive process learned from very early childhood.

If the lady was Orthodox she would never have crossed herself any other way, even if I am permitted to say, inside any Catholic Church. The ritual is too psychologically ingrained in mature adults no matter how ill they are.

Margarita 
  :)


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Bob_the_builder

  • Guest
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #197 on: June 04, 2007, 04:08:24 PM »
Bob - why on earth would Anna Anderson, or whoever she was, suddenly begin to speak in Polish at a lecture at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts?     Obviously she could not have realised there were native Polish speakers in the company, otherwise she would not have run the risk of unmasking herself.    But in an English speaking country and in the company of her English speaking husband, why would she speak 'loudly' in Polish? 

I simply cannot understand why a practised pretender would make such a slip up.   It just does not make sense. 

Anna Anderson (?) did understand the Russian language - and complex sentences at that.  That is an established fact.   Equally, it is true, she did not speak Russian.

When exploring the myth of AN/AA, it is necessary to admit that there have been some extraordinary coincidences.   Glossing over or refuting these coincidences, can only promote and perpetuate the myth.

tsaria         

   
Well, FS didn't even speak Polish in the younger years, so she must have picked it up in adulthood.  ;)What I don't understand is why people have to keep circulating these stories which are not verified at all instead of just pointing to the only proof that is needed- DNA. And the dentist was never going to come see AA's teeth. Someone brought him photos and all he said was, "I never would have left one of my patient's teeth in this condition." That is not the same as "going to examine her teeth to compare them to the real Anastasia."

Offline BobAtchison

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
    • The Alexander Palace
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #198 on: June 04, 2007, 05:59:46 PM »
Sorry, Martyr, I got that DIRECT from Ksenia's Granddaughter and DIRECT from the person who gave the lecture (who speaks fluent Russian as well).  They are facts not 'stories'.

Offline BobAtchison

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
    • The Alexander Palace
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #199 on: June 04, 2007, 06:04:24 PM »
Tsaria:

The lecturer was very surprised.  It was a strange scene  I don't remember what she was saying in Polish but I was told FS/Anna was disturbed and 'out of it' - senile - and what provoked it - I don't know.

Bob

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #200 on: June 04, 2007, 07:38:53 PM »
Tsaria:

The lecturer was very surprised.  It was a strange scene  I don't remember what she was saying in Polish but I was told FS/Anna was disturbed and 'out of it' - senile - and what provoked it - I don't know.

Bob

Her mental guard was down it seems and her real self finally emerged in public.

It is not unknown that senile multilingual people can revert to their original mother tongue without any provacation.

Margarita
  ;)


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #201 on: June 04, 2007, 08:07:49 PM »
For what its worth, the person giving the Faberge lecture is considered one of the world's experts on the subject.  Bob is not willing to disclose their name, to protect their privacy at this time...

I myself have heard Romanov descendants' stories about why AA was not AN, from them first hand. Including those who had known Anastasia Nicholaievna as a child who Anna Manahan REFUSED to see. Why, of course would the genuine AN refuse to see her genuine blood relatives, who wanted to believe it was her? As Judge Judy says, "if it makes no sense, it isn't true."

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #202 on: June 04, 2007, 08:24:21 PM »

... Including those who had known Anastasia Nicholaievna as a child who Anna Manahan REFUSED to see. Why, of course would the genuine AN refuse to see her genuine blood relatives, who wanted to believe it was her? As Judge Judy says, "if it makes no sense, it isn't true."

Why indeed? (Except the obvious!!!!!  ::) EXPOSURE of course.)

I agree with Judge Judy - a very wise and amiable lady (I wish she was back on TV here).

Margarita
  :)

 



« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 08:27:24 PM by Belochka »


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #203 on: June 06, 2007, 09:48:06 AM »
Tsaria:

The lecturer was very surprised.  It was a strange scene  I don't remember what she was saying in Polish but I was told FS/Anna was disturbed and 'out of it' - senile - and what provoked it - I don't know.

Bob

For what its worth, the person giving the Faberge lecture is considered one of the world's experts on the subject.  Bob is not willing to disclose their name, to protect their privacy at this time...

.... [in part]]...

FS first lanuage was Kashubian and  didn't speak Polish before she left  for Berlin in 1914,  atleast,  that is what  FS's brother claimed.  Yes,  he did say she knew a sprinkle of words which were probably  simple words  like  "thank you" ......    So when did FS  learn Polish in Berlin?     Did the Wingender's live in or near by a  Polish community?    Did she work in a Polish  restaurant as a waitress?    Maybe a friend from the factory was Polish....?   I honestly do not know the answer.  Do  you?

I doubt AA learn Polish  after her claim.  There was no reason for AA to learn Polish from 1920 to the time she was present at the Faberge lecture.   And,  yet,  according to  this person  or persons,   AA spewed out words in Polish like she were  bred, born and lived Polish... at the lecture.

It seems to me that if AA was FS then in her stage pf senility,  FS wold have disturbed everyone at the lecture with Kashubian not Polish.


Since I don't believe AA was  GD Anastasia, and,  I'm not convinced that AA was FS,   I find this  Polish outburst of  AA's  another  "contradiction"  of her being  FS so that is why this   contradiction  has been part of my list  of differences between  FS  and AA sometime ago when this "outburst"  was mentioned.

AGRBear








« Last Edit: June 06, 2007, 09:52:41 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline EPHMOC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • :)
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #204 on: October 22, 2009, 04:31:29 PM »
The story about FS/Anna Anderson speaking Polish relates to a lecture she attended at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts on Faberge,  She was there with John Manahan.  During the lecture she started loudly talking in Polish and the whole room could hear her.  There were several native Poles there and they said she was obviously a native Polish speaker.  This should not surprise anyone because FS/Anna was Polish.

Does anyone know, what she said then?

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #205 on: October 25, 2009, 12:29:48 AM »
The story about FS/Anna Anderson speaking Polish relates to a lecture she attended at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts on Faberge,  She was there with John Manahan.  During the lecture she started loudly talking in Polish and the whole room could hear her.  There were several native Poles there and they said she was obviously a native Polish speaker.  This should not surprise anyone because FS/Anna was Polish.

Does anyone know, what she said then?

I do not know, but Franziska probably spoke Kashubianas her native language because that was her ethnicity . Imprecisely, Kashubian is at times described as a "Polish dialect". It is equally likely she had a strong understanding of Polish because she grew up in an area where there were Germans, Poles, and Kashubians.

Since her speaking was called senile, what she said is probably not as important as the language in which she was saying it.

Offline EPHMOC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • :)
    • View Profile
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #206 on: October 25, 2009, 02:08:03 AM »
Since her speaking was called senile, what she said is probably not as important as the language in which she was saying it.

It could be important, because some words in Kashubian and Polish are similar... Maybe she said something in Kashubian, not in Polish. Of course, if you still wonder, if AA was FS or AN, it is not imaportant at all... I just wonder, if FS spoke Polish, or not...

Offline Превед

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1068
  • Мой Великий Север
    • View Profile
    • Type Russian Without a Keyboard
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #207 on: April 20, 2014, 02:47:50 PM »
Interestingly, Kashubian is not only distinct from most other Slavic languages because of heavy (Low) German influence, but also because it's the only living Slavic language that haven't gone through the so-called metathesis of liquid consonants (r and l), i.e. proto-Slavic or Indo-European gord, town, castle, turning into grad or gorod or bard turning into brada or boroda. (The forms with the consonant shifting forwards being West or South Slavic, the forms with a vowel between every consonant being East Slavic.) In Kashubian (and the extinct Slavic languages spoken further west in Germany) it stayed gart and bart, very similar to German, e. g. Gart(en) and Bart. Thence such typical Pomerian names like Stargard, Barth etc.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 02:56:22 PM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и берёзы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1938
    • View Profile
    • Rex and Hannah Chronicles Wikia
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #208 on: April 21, 2014, 04:37:50 PM »
Quote
I'm not convinced that AA was FS

Didn't they do a DNA test with one of FS's relatives.  It matched that of AA's.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: AA and the Russian Language
« Reply #209 on: April 21, 2014, 05:08:52 PM »
They did. It showed a close maternal relationship of only 2 generations at most.