Author Topic: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants  (Read 278016 times)

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Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2004, 10:21:35 AM »
We know that the family had been actively plotting against Nicholas and Alexandra since September 1916.  They were incredibly open about it, Victoria Melita was blabbing to everyone about it.  Romanovs were talking to Military officers, foreign diplomats, members of the Duma about getting rid of Alix or overthrowing Nicholas.  Even his brother Michael was involved.

I can't believe the Okrana wasn't aware of this and reported it to Nicholas.  They were always taking these plots to him in order to persuade him to submit to greater protection.

I am certain Nicholas knew about Buchannan's (the English Ambassador) involvement.

When Rasputin was murdered the girls knew that their mother was the real target.  I'll bet Nicholas had a full run down of who had been involved in the plots and what they were saying.

I still maintain that the Generals and some of the family conspired to get Nicholas away from Tsarskoe Selo so they could separate him from Alix and force concessions or an abdication from him.

Offline Annie

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2004, 10:28:27 AM »
Wasn't there one active plot to oust Alix,  lock her in a monestary and install Nikolasha as regent for Alexei?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Olga

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2004, 10:50:54 AM »
Quote
Wasn't there one active plot to oust Alix and lock in a monestary.......


Ah, the favourite method of getting rid of unwanted Russian Tsaritsas/Tsarevnas.

Buchannan was involved?

Offline Annie

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2004, 10:54:08 AM »
If Buchannan was involved, that would be more evidence for the theory that the British agent was in on Rasputin's murder.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2004, 12:49:46 AM »
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I can't believe the Okrana wasn't aware of this and reported it to Nicholas. †They were always taking these plots to him in order to persuade him to submit to greater protection.


Perhaps it was because of so many plots and palace intrigues, the Okhrana did in fact step up security. No ordinary person could ever directly approach Nikolai ... and his Generals respected their Commander too much to permit anything untoward to happen to him. As for Alexandra I believe anything was possible. She certainly was the stone around Russia's neck. It is not unrealistic to believe that Nikolai was indeed persuaded to leave the palace in order to force his hand.

I strongly believe that Nikolai was not ignorant of all these issues. He would have been kept fully informed. He would have been aware that there was intrigue issuing from his own family circle. His own inaction was a testament to that. Only because his Military Generals failed to support him any longer did he finally give in.

It was not the family, nor the intrigues, it came down to his genuine affection for Russia and her destiny. His primary concern was for Russia to win the war.  



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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2004, 03:00:40 AM »
Although I have posted similar elsewhere I do have to say that the Radzinsky's case against Dimitry does not withstand even the most basic evidential test.  He has chosen to use parts of the evidence from the GARF files and elsewhere that support his case and to ignore other evidence that goes against him.  

His use of the Efimov as a witness is flawed because he has not revealed all that Efimov says.  He has also failed to grasp the fact that the story about how Rasputin met his death is flawed.  The final shot (if we can even be sure of the sequence of shots - but in all probability the final shot) was at point blank range to the forehead.  No question about it - Kossorotov the original pathologist says so, Prof Zharov and his team of Russia's top pathologists in Russia confirm this.  It jumped off the page at me, it bears not only the 'Standsmark' but also has the 'starring' effect you would expect to see in a close contact firearm wound to the forehead.

Dimitry was a complicated person and his association with Felix highlights - the very intense letter you can find under Yusupov's correspondence on this site highlights this.

I think I have previously mentioned a recent Russian study into Yusupov's sexuality that I believe shows he was at least bi-sexual and in all probability gay.

As Irina's parents were concerned about her marraige to yusupov, even in his coded language it is around his sexuality the same can be said of Alexandra's and Nicholas' view of him.  I think the case is pretty compelling that he was in (or had been in) a sexual relationship with Felix.  If you read Lost Splendor carefully you pick Felix's comments up concerning this suspicion.

As gay'bi-sexual relationships were common place amongst the IF and nobility he would have still beeen liked.  KR was a well known 'gay' who at one time was being bribed by an army officer.  Sergei Alexandrovich, Dimitry's guardian was strongly suspected of being gay.

Felix was in an intense relationship with Rasputin - and Dimitry may well have been jealous.  So you can add this to the reasons why he might want to murder Rasputin.

But how many motives you might come up with you are laking one ingredient - evidence, there is just not one piece of evidence that supports the fact that he was the murderer.  Radzinsky set out to show he was - and says he shows that he did - well if you don't worry about evidence then he did - in his mind.

There is so much nonsense that yusupov and P protected him because blood could not be on his hands.  It made no difference under Russian law whether he shot Rasputin or was, as Y's and P's evidence shows an active participant in the murder.  Nicholas said that 'Dimitry has blood on his hands.'

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumberís chain hath bound me,
Sad memíry brings the light
Of other days around me.

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Offline Olga

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2004, 04:22:25 AM »
Felix Felixovich's relationship with Grigori Yefimovich was sexual, yes?

Offline Johnny

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2004, 05:28:37 AM »
Felix and Rasputin???!?
Nah!
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2004, 05:35:36 AM »
Well I find this interesting - sometimes Radzinsky seems convenient when he is saying Dimitry is the murderer at other times, in respect of Y's relationship with r you don't want to accept it.

Without pulling the book out you can find a quote from one of the If about Y's relationship with R - 'carnal' is the description.  It would fit in with Felix's sexuality, a lure for R.

You can even find it in his descriptions of his encounters with R - being hypnotised and not knowing what he had done - really???

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumberís chain hath bound me,
Sad memíry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Annie

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2004, 11:34:51 AM »
I do believe Felix was gay with Dmitri, but not with Rasputin. Rasputin did not go with men, and Felix was obsessed with youth and beauty and I don't think he'd have been sexually interested in a scary looking, usually messy, middle aged man.

Felix wrote of seeing naked 'old and ugly' people at a ball in France and how he fled in disgust!

Never in my life have I seen anything so disgusting. A crowd of half-naked people rushing about excitedly in an overheated atmosphere heavy with the odor of perspiring bodies. Nakedness, which can be so chaste when associated with youth and beauty, is obscene in the old and the ugly. Most of the people at the ball were hideous, and all of them were drunk; they had lost all sense of decency and gave free play to their bestiality. Sickened by this revolting spectacle, we left early.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2004, 03:02:11 PM »
A couple of comments:

There is no evidence that I know of that indicates FFY had a sexual relationship with Rasputin. There were rumors that FFY had a sexual relationship with DP, but as all of Dmitri's known lovers were women, the rumors may have been false. Both DP and FFY wanted to marry Irina A., although as we know, she chose the latter.

Dmitri never spoke about Rasputin's murder - he kept his word. He made it clear that his issue with FFY after the Revolution stemmed from this and nothing else. I know of no evidence that he was "jealous" of Felix and R. - and it would seem illogical for F to kill his 'lover" , if so, no?

Radzinsky should be shot - metaphorically of course - for spreading so much misinformation. When asked about this,  he laughs and says he just wants to sell books. However, many people do not question his outright lies and half truths.

A case in point is the "engagement" of DP and Olga. Well, there WAS NO ENGAGEMENT. This has been repeated over and over across this board, and yet, here we go again, someone saying DP killed GER because of this non existent engagement. The truth? Anyone interested in that? I am sure Nicholas and Alexandra would have loved as many daughters as possible to remain in Russia and DP was one of the few eligibles who could have made that happen.

Yet another poster then says all the girls were serious and religious. Huh? Olga was serious and religious, but the other girls were much less so. That is why I think that DP and Anastasia would have suited. Both were bright and witty, loved animals, and the everyday life they both ultimately preferred was very similar.  Neither was overly religious and both loved Russia.

If Alix didn't want DP around the girls, how do you explain the lovely framed photo in my library from 1916 - featuring Nicholas, Tatiana, Dmitri and Olga?

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2004, 06:27:48 PM »
I don't know about Maria or Anastasia, but certainly Tatiana was also very religious.

I think it is quite a valid point brought up earlier that the Empress was also a target of the conspirators - Gleb Botkin says that she herself thought so. Maybe they would have only tried to have sent her to a monastery, but Botkin implies that she thought her life in danger.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2004, 08:40:28 PM »
I don't think that Dmitri, Marie, or Anastasia were irreligious. It's just a matter of degree - Olga was very religious - these three rather less so.

As to Alexandra, many disliked her meddling in politics. While it may be that she was merely doing what her husband wanted done, the fact that so many people lost their posts because they didn't worship Rasputin made her widely hated. The focus of many of the Grand Ducal and Duma plots in 1916/17 was removing Alexandra - not Nicholas, but his wife.

Offline Kostya

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2004, 10:53:25 AM »
Lisa Davidson please can you post the picture you have framed up i would love to see it.  

i must agree that Dimitri did stay on for a long time with the IF even though many say that Alix did not want his company.  i don't think Dimitri was  a bit over angry that he was no longer a candidate for the girls.  he was the beloved adopted son of the Nicky and Alix and they would have chosen or seen that a good match be made for him.  even he knew that he was not a candidate but still continued to flirt with the girls.  

FY is known for his gossipyness and over exaggerating and maybe even in his "coded" book he still could have been exaggerating his relationship with DP.  we must remember that Dp was the Romanov's golden boy.  an association like that would elevate anyones position.
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch, his wife Audrey Emery, and descendants
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2005, 07:39:34 AM »
I think I am not a "discoverer" of this photo but I was amazed with it. Dmitry and Coco Chanel. Have anyone ever seen other photos of Dmitry and Coco together?