Author Topic: Spanish nobility & aristocracy  (Read 51960 times)

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Offline Yseult

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2007, 05:50:34 AM »
I think Carmen was a pretty girl and later a beautiful woman...Her three younger sisters (Mariola, Merry, Arantxa) were always overshadowed by Carmencita, the one who caught the public´s eye. She became a shinning star in the not very glamourous dictator´s court at El Pardo.
I suppose she was just a self-confident party girl. When she was very young she was involved with Fernando of Baviera, a married man, and I read somewhere that Juan Carlos (now the king) urged his cousin Fernando to break up the relationship. Later, she fell in love with Jaime Rivera, but her father was outraged and put her under a great pression until the relationship was ended. I always thought she married Alfonso of Cadiz because this marriage was exactly what her family expected from her. She played her role of "princess by marriage" (her grandmother, Carmen Polo, always named her "Her Highness" showing a deep pride...) and had two sons, but she was really bored with her husband. And she had strength enough to search her happines with the french Jean Marie Rossi.
I can understand her choices in life. The only thing I can not understand is the way she makes feel bad her son Luis Anfonso when she appears dancing in the tv or she gain a lot of money telling her private stories in the magazines. But, at he end, I feel more simpaty for Carmencita when I look to her "mother-in-law" Emmanuella Dampierre. I can´t stand Emmanuella, so I like Carmencita because I dislike the old "lady".

Offline edtash

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2007, 10:21:57 AM »
I think Carmen may not be the smartest of people. She has trouble holding on to husbands. What is this new one, number 3/4?  At the same time she has had not such a good life. Her husband having killed her eldest son by his driving irresponsibility, her step-daughter dying in a freak accident with a propeller. Not many nice things surely to remember!

One thing I can say, is that she seems likely to be a survivor, someone who makes good of the adversities her life has experienced and for that she has my admiration.

Eddie

Offline archiduque Karlos

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2007, 02:35:34 PM »
I ´m interested in the life of the princess de los Ursinos. Does someone know something on her? Thank you

Offline Yseult

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2007, 12:41:11 PM »
This woman had a great and deep influence in spanish history, but I must to confess that I have just a brief knowledge about her. I know she was the daughter of a duke and she was married to two princes, a Talleyrand prince of Chalais and an italian Orsini. I really want to increase my knowledge about the intriguing princess...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 12:23:33 AM by trentk80 »

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2007, 03:32:10 AM »
The Princesse des Ursins was described by Saint-Simon (a great friend) as "She was rather taller than the average, a brunette, with eloquent blue eyes that expressed all that she desired, a perfect figure, fine shoulders, and a face that was charming without being strictly beautiful.  She had a noble air, with something almost regal in her bearing, and always, in everything that she did, an unaffected grace which I have never seen equalled in mind or body, for she was witty in every way imaginable. She could flatter, caress, persuade, or moderate; she loved to please for pleasing's sake, and her charm was impossible to withstand when she wished to have her way or win one over.  Withal, and despite her high-bred air, she was attractive rather than awe-inspiring; wholly delightful in conversation, never at a loss, and always amusing, because of the many countries and people that she had seen and known, and because of her gentle way of speaking and agreeable voice.  She read widely and reflected on her reading.  With a vast acquaintance among the best society and long practice in entertaining she was exquisitely polite to all, but discriminating according to age and rank.  Above all, she was most particular to make advances to no one without dignity and propriety."
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 07:58:46 AM by trentk80 »

Offline Luke

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2007, 01:37:08 AM »
"Above all, she was most particular to make advances to no one without dignity and propriety."

From a post of mine from a year ago:   Count Alberoni, an ambassador of sorts from the Duchy of Parma, spearheaded the effort to have Philip marry Isabel Farnesio (or Elisabetta Farnese).  In the absence of a spanish Queen, the Princesse des Ursins fulfilled the role of first lady of the land and had Philip's ear on everything. Ursins herself was strong and loud.  Alberoni worked on Ursins and finally convinced her of the beneifts of the Parmesan marriage, so the matter was settled,and Philip and Isabel were married by proxy in Parma in 1714, before Isabel ever stepped foot in Spain and before she ever met Philip.  Undoubtedly, the Princesse des Ursins knew that the grateful Isabel would do her bidding.
So at 21, Isabel arrives in Spain.  After the long journey, she's tired and she's late.  The Princesse des Ursins does not meet her at the palace doors, but waits for her at the top of the staircase.  She then lays into her, criticizing her on her lateness, her dress, her hair.  Isabel screamed to Alberoni and the guards to "Take this woman away who dares to insult me."  She had Ursins immediately arrested and shortly thereafter exiled to France.   

Offline Marc

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2007, 05:16:36 PM »
Uuuuhhh,this Isabel Farnesio was dangerous from the start!

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2008, 10:54:33 AM »
The Duchses of Medina-Sidonia passed away yesterday at her beautiful palace in Sanlucar de Barrameda. She was in her 72nd year.

Doña Luisa Álvarez de Toledo, XXI Duchess of Medina-Sidonia, was born at Estoril, Portugal, on August 21, 1936. Her father was don Joaquín Álvarez de Toledo y Caro, XX Duque de Medina-Sidonia, her mother was María del Carmen Maura, herself the granddaughter of former head of government don Antonio Maura.

Doña Luisa Álvarez de Toledo lost her mother at the tender age of 10 years. From then onwards she was under the care and guidance of her grandmother, the Countess of Mortera. In 1955 doña Luisa not only received the title of Duchess of Medina-Sidonia after the death of her father, but also became the wife of don Leoncio González. As Duchess of Medina Sidonia she inherited not only one of the oldest titles in Spain (created by King don Juan II of Castille in 1445), but an amazing collection of priceless treasures. Doña Luisa was a self-taught historian of great erudition.

The Duchess's first child, Leoncio González y Álvarezde Toledo, Count of Niebla, was born in 1956. Two other children completed the family, María del Pilar (named after the Infanta María del Pilar of Spain, a close friend of the Duchess, and Gabriel.

She was a vocal opponent of the Franco regime and her anti-totalitarian ideas earned her the sobriquet of "Red Duchess." In 1967 she led a protest in support of laborers in Spain, actions for which she was imprisoned for seven months in 1969. The year before she had published a book titled La Huelga (THE STRIKE), for which she had to face a military tribunal. Because of her legal troubles with the Franco regime, the Duchess of Medina-Sidonia left Spain and exiled herself for the following seven years. It was not until 1976 that she returned to post-Franco Spain.

Eventually she settled in a palace in Sanlucar de Barrameda, where she went to great efforts compiling her family's vast and priceless collection of historical documents. Experts consider the documents Spain's greatest private collection of such items.

Her later years saw her basking in political and historical activism. Among her causes were leading a group of people who did not recognize Christopher Columbus, our shared ancestor, as the "discoverer of America." In 2000 she led a delegation of Spanish Muslims on a visit to King Mohamed Vi of Morocco. She declared that Ceuta and Melilla, Spain's possessions in Northern Africa, ought to be returned to Morocco, which led the citizens of Ceuta to ask city hall that her name be removed from the city's Golden Book of Visitors. Throughout her life doña Luisa Álvarez de Toledo never shied away from polemical issues.

Last year HRH The Prince of Asturias awarded her the prestigious Beaux Arts Medal of Merit.

The Count of Niebla is now next in line to petition the Spanish Cortes for recognition of his succession to the title as XXII Duke of Medina-Sidonia

May she rest in peace...

Arturo Beéche
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 01:43:33 AM by trentk80 »
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Offline José

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2008, 02:00:39 PM »
Diario de Sevilla claims that, shortly before her death, the duchess got married, "in articulo mortis" with the secretary of the Foundation of Medina Sidonia House, Miss Liliane Marie Dahlman who will succeed the duchess as president of the Foundation till her own death.

The Foundation runs the Ducal Archive.
A few years ago, the duchess was "in war" with the government as she felt such an important archive deserved greater state sponsorship.

Then she took advantage of a visit made by former portuguese president Mário Soares to Andaluzia and invited him to visit the Palace and the Archives.
Both the duchess and the president being left-winged persons the visit was most amiable.
Then out of the blue the Duchess asked M.Soares what kind of state sponsorship she would get if she decided to transfer the Archives to Portugal.

The day after, spanish public sponsorship arrived.
I never believed Spain would let such a "jewel" leave the country .

The Foundation and the preservation of the Archives were the long term campaign the Duchess held.
She had almost an obsession that History would be known by everybody.
"Only through the knowledge of History, can one foresee the disasters in the future" she thought.

RIP

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2008, 12:18:39 PM »
Until her very last breath, Luisa Medina Sidonia never ceased to be rather peculiar and unique...like a good aristocrat after all!

God Bless her!

Arturo
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Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2008, 01:48:47 PM »
hi !

I'd like to know about the actual duque de sevilla & his family.
I think they are royal highness in spain but I think they are serene highness in france, as distant cousin of the head of the House of Bourbon.
What are were the occupations of Francisco Duque de Sevilla  (1912-1995) ?
what about his sons ?
Francisco Duque de Sevilla (1943-)
Alfonso (1945-)
Enrique (1970-)

& grandchildren
Olivia (1974-)
Cristina (1975-)
Francisco Jr (1979-)
Alfonso Jr (1973-)
Alejandra (1976-)

I read that the first duke, Infant Don Enrique (brother of King Consort Francisco ) was called duque de Sagunto (city near Valencia)
Is it true? if it is, is this title still in this branch of the house of Bourbon?

Offline REMI

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2008, 02:54:59 PM »
The 5th Duke of Sévilla, Francisco de Paula Henrique (b.1943) and his eldest son, Francisco de Paula Joaquino (b.1979) are not Royal Highness in Spain. Only...Excellency
In France, they are nothing. Only foreigners.

REMI

Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2008, 05:51:53 AM »
hello

wow I can't imagine that descendants of king Henri IV, Louis XIV & so many kings of France, Navarra, Spain are nothing but foreigners...it's sad because they are real bourbon, even if they served spanish army.
Henri IV before becoming a king was a foreigner too, as king of Navarra.


Offline Norbert

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2008, 06:01:42 AM »
seriously , Yes they are members of this wonderful dynasty. I think Remi is playing with us. I've never heard of the title duque de Sagunto . The Duchess of Seville is the niece of 10 Prince von Furstenberg. I have Concha Espina in Madrid as an address. You do see them popping up in Hola magazine so they must be high in Spanish society.

Offline tecklenburg

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Re: Spanish nobility & aristocracy
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2008, 11:58:09 AM »
oh ok ! so this branch is well known by spanish people.
Yes a marriage with an Gräfin von Hardenberg is quite prestigious.
how did they meet?
I agree with you